[Vision2020] Public Smoking

[bear at moscow.com]

Joe,

My point has always been, and still is, we don't need a local law. The
market forces will make the necessary changes if they need to take place.
People can make choices IF THEY HAVE THEM. What this local legislation
will do is take away choice.

In this case, if you don't want to service equipment in a smoking
establishment, don't.
If you don't like smoke in an establishment, then don't go there.
If you don't like smoke in an establishment, don't work there.

BUT, it boils down to choice.

What I've heard on here is that folks want the benefits of these
establishments, but want it their way, not the way the owners of the
establishments have set them up and run them.
They have a choice.

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> Bear,
>
> I'm not a regulator. I'm not sure what side to take in this issue
> since I see good arguments on both sides. But I can't help but comment
> when I see a bad argument and the "choice" argument promoted by you
> and Kai and others strikes me as a bad argument. If it were a good
> argument, it would work against government regulation of any kind but
> it doesn't.
>
> Joe Campbell
>
> On Jun 21, 2009, at 8:36 AM, bear at moscow.com wrote:
>
>> Kai,
>>
>> I have a feeling that nothing we can say, or even try to enter into a
>> discussion where alternatives, will please the "Regulators"!
>>
>> They will find all sorts of "straw men" to throw out, like the service
>> persons having to come in (they aren't forced to fix equipment by the
>> way), and I love the insurance argument!  How many waiters and
>> waitresses
>> even get insurance?
>>
>> There are many dangers in every occupation, and they have a CHOICE.
>> What
>> the "Regulators" are really annoyed about is that they can't control
>> everything (yet) so they will chip away and chip away. Hell, they
>> aren't
>> happy with the state law allowing exceptions to the "Idaho Clean Air
>> Act",
>> so they will chip away where and when they can.
>>
>> Mostly, I vote with my wallet on these issues. (And I vote at the
>> poles
>> during elections) IF a place bothers me, I don't go there. The
>> "Regulators" aren't happy with that choice. Rather than not go to an
>> establishment where the smoking is allowed under State Law, they
>> want the
>> establishment to change via imposed legislation from the city council.
>>
>>
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>>> I actually excpected an answer like Mike's.
>>> So, how often are "others" in a bar during the bar's "operating
>>> hours"?
>>> They don't operate on a "9-5" schedule.
>>> Most, if not all, of the maintainance, repairs and deliveries are
>>> made
>>> while the joint is closed.
>>> So, it would seem that Mike's response is the true "straw man".
>>> There was nothing dismissive, people were whining about those who are
>>> employed at smoking establishments. I made a reasonable suggestion.
>>
>>
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>