[Vision2020] NYTimes: The Big Hate
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Sun Jun 14 17:15:01 PDT 2009
Joe,
I'm not Dan, but I'd like to answer this one.
My response to this is somewhat ironic, because I admonished you earlier
for drawing lines in the sand. But... there is one line I do draw:
What goes on inside your skull is your own business.
So if someone does believe that the holocaust never happened, then I do
think they are entitled to their opinion. The same thing goes with the
supposed Shangri La of southern slavery. I may think they are wrong
(which, as it happens, I do), but they are still entitled to their
opinions. They are entitled to speak about it publicly, and they are
entitled to try to sway others to their cause. People who believe
differently are free to critique their ideas.
I'd hate to live in a world where not simply stating a contrary opinion,
but even just holding a contrary belief is not acceptable.
Paul
Joe Campbell wrote:
> Dan,
>
> Are you saying that people are ENTITLED to believe that the holocaust
> never happened? That seems like a radical view to me. I feel
> comfortable drawing the line on the other side of crazy, thank you
> very much.
>
> I find it interesting that you and Paul and others have no trouble
> calling me out for my beliefs -- I'm biased because I think historical
> revisionism is wrong, or whatever your reason was -- but you don't
> want to say anything against those who deny the holocaust or who claim
> that slavery wasn't so bad.
>
> That is one strange -- or politically convenient -- set of beliefs!
>
> Joe Campbell
>
> On Jun 14, 2009, at 2:46 PM, "Dan Carscallen" <areaman at moscow.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>> Joe,
>>
>> I think people are entitled to their opinion.
>>
>> I don't necessarily have to agree with their opinion. Nor do I have
>> to
>> agree with yours.
>>
>> As Paul wondered earlier, why do we have to draw lines in the sand?
>> Why
>> must we search for divisiveness? I'd just as soon get along.
>>
>> DC
>>
>> p.s. my initial post was lighthearted in nature. I thought you'd
>> "get"
>> it. Sunil and Carl would have!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joe Campbell [mailto:philosopher.joe at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:27 PM
>> To: Dan Carscallen
>> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] NYTimes: The Big Hate
>>
>> Is it that I'm biased or that you are too afraid to buck the Wilson
>> camp for fear of losing votes?
>>
>> Well, we can test it.
>>
>> Don't you think that Wilson's revisionism about US slavery is just as
>> bad as the denial of the holocaust; if not, why not?
>>
>> My guess is you won't answer this question -- which is a bit of the
>> very problem I'm trying to note.
>>
>> Joe Campbell
>>
>> On Jun 14, 2009, at 1:27 PM, "Dan Carscallen" <areaman at moscow.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Joe,
>>>
>>> Your bias is showing.
>>>
>>> DC
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Joe Campbell
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:21 PM
>>> To: g. crabtree
>>> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] NYTimes: The Big Hate
>>>
>>> I haven't heard of half these people. Of these, most are not
>>> mainstream in the Fox is; of the others they are not as bad as Fox.
>>> Nor do I expect someone who defends Wilson's book in slavery to be
>>> able to notice how offensive Fox is.
>>>
>>> Joe Campbell
>>>
>>> On Jun 14, 2009, at 10:41 AM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you imagine that MSNBC with Olbermann, Madow, and Mathews,
>>>> Newsweek and Evan Thomas, and taxpayer funded NPR with Jeffery
>>>> Dvorkin, Nina Totenberg, Terry Gross and Michele Norris doesn't put
>>>> a particularly and decidedly liberal spin on its "information" then
>>>> you're even thicker than I previousimg20090614171449533ly imagined. No mean feat, that.
>>>>
>>>> g
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Campbell"
>>>>
>>> <philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>>>
>>>> To: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>>>> Cc: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:41 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] NYTimes: The Big Hate
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Paul,
>>>>>
>>>>> And what does this have to do with anything I've said? You're
>>>>> obviously reading something into my post that I did not say.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fox news is a disgusting example of bias, different in degree from
>>>>> any other news organization, IMO. That you would follow Tom's post
>>>>> with some claim that "Everyone does it" strikes me as
>>>>> irresponsible since it just muddys the water. Not every
>>>>> organization is biased in the way Fox is. Someone needed to point
>>>>> that out and I did so. That is all there is to it. I made no
>>>>> comments about conservative news organizations in general, just
>>>>> the one bad apple.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe Campbell
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 14, 2009, at 1:21 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe Campbell wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is precisely why I'm disagreeing with Paul. Folks like you
>>>>>>> have got him convinced that the NY Times is as bad as Fox News.
>>>>>>> What a joke!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nowhere did I say that the NY Times is as bad as Fox News. All I
>>>>>> said was that all news has bias. That includes both the NY Times
>>>>>> and Fox News, but it says nothing about the amount of bias
>>>>>> relative to each other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You've drawn a line in the sand. There is a "right" that watches
>>>>>> only Fox News, and there is a "left" that reads only the NY
>>>>>> Times. The truth is, that line doesn't really exist as a line.
>>>>>> If you really look at it, the right and left ideologies cover so
>>>>>> much territory that you can't help but agree with a few concepts
>>>>>> "across the line".
>>>>>> If we're ever going to come back together again as a country, we
>>>>>> have to throw that crap out the window. All of us have to do
>>>>>> this. Instead of looking for where we might agree, we're
>>>>>> highlighting the differences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
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