[Vision2020] Say What?
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Thu Jul 30 12:27:04 PDT 2009
I'm not implying anything. I just mentioned the possibility. The
central point that this story revolves around is the assumption that
Professor Gates was harassed because he was black. It seems reasonable
to point out that the responding officer didn't initiate this, it was
the neighbor that did. So if there was a racial component (i.e. black
man trying to open a stuck door = a burglar), it would have had to have
started there.
As to whether or not she should have called the police, well, it's a
judgment call. I would rather not involve the police unless I am
certain that there actually is a crime in progress, because the
potential for accidents is too high. But I do acknowledge that her
heart was in the right place.
Paul
Craine Kit wrote:
>> The lady that reported the burglary in the first place should be
>> reminded that not everyone trying to get in a stuck door is a criminal.
>> Would she have called the police if Professor Gates was white? Who
>> knows.
>
> I have been told many times--by police officers--that they can't do
> their job without vigilant neighbors reporting suspicious activity.
> The lady did exactly what she was supposed to by reporting the
> incident to the authorities. On the 911 tape, she clearly says--more
> than once--that the men might live there but she did not know for
> sure. Given that there had been a recent break-in at that house, I
> file her actions under "being a good neighbor." Blaming her for doing
> the right thing and implying she is racist is way out of line.
>
> Kit Craine
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 30, 2009, at 10:04 AM, Paul Rumelhart wrote:
>
>> My take on the whole matter:
>>
>> The lady that reported the burglary in the first place should be
>> reminded that not everyone trying to get in a stuck door is a criminal.
>> Would she have called the police if Professor Gates was white? Who
>> knows.
>>
>> Jumping immediately on Sgt. Crowley was an ill-advised move on Gates
>> part. He had to investigate the alleged burglary, he couldn't just say
>> "this lady is probably wrong, I'll just let it go". As Gary mentioned,
>> a polite response would have made this all not happen. He could then
>> have crowed about it to his heart's content, about how someone thought
>> he was a burglar because he's black, what's this world coming to, etc.,
>> etc. Now, to me at least, he comes across like a bad-tempered old man
>> with a too short fuse when it comes to his race. If he had handled it
>> calmly, I would have been right behind him when he talked about the
>> sorry state of race relations in this country still today. He should
>> not have followed Sgt. Crowley outside and continued to verbally abuse
>> him. Maybe Sgt. Crowley could have shown a little fortitude and just
>> left, but I find it hard to find pity for Professor Gates in this
>> situation.
>>
>> President Obama, as human as everyone else, sided with his friend. It
>> seems obvious to me. In my opinion, he should not have said what he did
>> in the first place, and should have come out with an actual apology
>> afterwards. He should still do that. Saying you respect the other
>> person and maybe you could have worded it better without saying you were
>> wrong is not an apology. Otherwise, you're adding insult to injury.
>>
>> Does this mean I think President Obama is unfit for office? No. It
>> does mean that I don't think he's incapable of doing wrong, and it means
>> that I certainly don't think he's a "saint".
>>
>> This is all assuming, of course, that it was written up the way that it
>> actually happened.
>>
>> As for the Sergeant entering Professor Gates' house, isn't this
>> acceptable when he's investigating a burglary? Especially since he
>> entered only the foyer, from what I remember.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> lfalen wrote:
>>> That is right, he was. The officer was responding to a potential
>>> burglary. Gates should have been appreciative. Instead he was
>>> verbally abusive.
>>> Roger
>>> -----Original message-----
>>> From: Wayne Price bear at moscow.com
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:05:10 -0700
>>> To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Roger,
>>>>
>>>> But he was in HIS OWN HOUSE!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 29, 2009, at 10:57 AM, lfalen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I think thar you are missing the point. Gate was belligerent from
>>>>> the git go before he finally identified himself. He at first
>>>>> refused to do so. He was arrested for verbal abuse of a police
>>>>> officer, not for burglary. If a black cop came to my house after I
>>>>> had locked myself out I would thank him for doing his job. About 20
>>>>> years ago when I was the Feed Plant Manager for Whitman County
>>>>> Grower I was working late one night, trying to finish up the monthly
>>>>> billings. I had turned off the lights and went to sleep in a
>>>>> sleeping bag. It was about 2:00 AM when a search light was shined in
>>>>> the window. A bull horn said " come out of there with your hands up"
>>>>> I said " as soon as I get my pants on". I identified myself telling
>>>>> them what I was doing and they went on their way.
>>>>> Roger
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original message-----
>>>>> From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>>>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 07:41:30 -0700
>>>>> To: "g. crabtree" jampot at roadrunner.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Look it up yourself. You don't trust my sources anyway! Trust me,
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>> not going to waste my time trying to convince you of anything. I'm
>>>>>> just here to note your errors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course Gates could and should have handled it better. But once
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> ID was shown, the officer should have left. His services were no
>>>>>> longer needed. Everything after that point was a waste of taxpayer
>>>>>> dollars, something you usually care a lot about -- though it is not
>>>>>> surprising you ignore it when it suits you. That is your MO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 29, 2009, at 10:25 AM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I failed to note it because I'm fairly sure that it didn't happen.
>>>>>>> Please provide a link to BHO's apology to either Sgt. Crowley or
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Cambridge P.D.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having actually read the police report, it's clear that had Gates
>>>>>>> simply and calmly shown his I.D. the officer would have left. It
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> Gates who continued to aggressively engage Sgt Crowley with demands
>>>>>>> and threats. Was Gates' arrest required? Probably not but, there is
>>>>>>> no question but what the professor was the one that was behaving
>>>>>>> stupidly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Campbell"
>>>>>>> <philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>>>>>>> Cc: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>; "Moscow Vision 2020"
>>>>>>> <vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 6:41 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If someone came to your house thinking you broke in and you showed
>>>>>>>> him ID proving you lived there and he didn't leave immediately,
>>>>>>>> I'd say he acted stupidly -- even if you took the race elements
>>>>>>>> out of it. As it turns out, Obama even said he was sorry,
>>>>>>>> which of
>>>>>>>> course you failed to note.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not that any of this will convince you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:12 AM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not so sure that I'd go so far as to brand the POTUS a racist
>>>>>>>>> as it's a
>>>>>>>>> term that gets thrown around a little to casually, in my opinion.
>>>>>>>>> I would,
>>>>>>>>> however, like to know how you explain his standing in front of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> nation
>>>>>>>>> and stating up front that he doesn't know the whole story with
>>>>>>>>> regard to his
>>>>>>>>> pal Henry Gates and Cambridge police sergeant James Crowley and
>>>>>>>>> yet went so
>>>>>>>>> far as to characterize law enforcements actions as "behaving
>>>>>>>>> stupidly?" How
>>>>>>>>> many other decisions does the man reach without being fully
>>>>>>>>> informed?
>>>>>>>>> Judging from other remarks I've heard him make I'd venture to say
>>>>>>>>> Cap and
>>>>>>>>> Trade and National Health Care might fall squarely into that same
>>>>>>>>> category.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 5:41 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Say What?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "This president, I think, has exposed himself as a guy, over and
>>>>>>>>>> over and
>>>>>>>>>> over again, who has a deep-seated hatred for white people or the
>>>>>>>>>> white
>>>>>>>>>> culture, I don't know what it is. I'm not saying that he
>>>>>>>>>> doesn't like
>>>>>>>>>> white people. I'm saying he has a problem. This guy is, I
>>>>>>>>>> believe, a
>>>>>>>>>> racist.''
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Glenn Beck on President Obama (July 28, 2009)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIZDnpPafaA
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>>>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it
>>>>>>>>>> to change
>>>>>>>>>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Unknown
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>>
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================================
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> =======================================================
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>
>
More information about the Vision2020
mailing list