[Vision2020] Indoor Air Quality

[bear at moscow.com]

Second hand smoke is a nuisance IF it is somewhere you NEED to be, not
somewhere that you are of your own volition! There are already non-smoking
bars IN Moskva! But this big brother legislation goes INTO the pockets of
the bar owners.

Now, what the real crux of the matter is the really good places to go for
music or sports were smoking bars and the whiners wouldn't go there
because of the "bad atmosphere." Well, I just hope they get off their dead
butts (no pun intended) and support those place because I sure as hell
won't!



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> My point is government regulates nuisances. Second hand smoke is a
> nuisance. It is noxious. It's poison. Businesses should not be allowed to
> expose people to it, and other noxious compounds, unreasonably.
>
> It's an epic struggle trying to regulate businesses. They want the right
> to do whatever. The people they affect want protection. Regulating smoking
> is no different than regulating any other crap a business produces as a
> by-product of its profit.
>
> Of course I have a right to not patronize these businesses. I also have
> the right to expect government to be consistent. If it can regulate what
> you see (boobies) and what you hear (that's up to a cop) it should
> regulate what you breath. This world would become an ashtray quicker than
> it would otherwise.
>
> Free speech trumps the right of smokers. If we can have a draconian noise
> ordinance, we can have a smoking ban.
>
> But my initial point was it's not about smoke, its about indoor air
> quality in general, and I would rather see those regulations than a
> smoking ban. I agree that, once again, the council didn't put time in to
> ensuring that this works for more people than it may now.
>
> Take a deeeeep breath...
>  Garrett Clevenger
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>
> To: Garrett Clevenger <garrettmc at verizon.net>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:49:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Indoor Air Quality
>
> Garrett:
>
> Your points below are so illogical it is almost funny.  Allow me to
> address them.
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Garrett Clevenger<garrettmc at verizon.net>
> wrote:
>> Yeah, and you wouldn't have to patronize a nude bar, but that's illegal
>> too.
> That's illogical:  Smoking isn't illegal.
>> Businesses are regulated precisely because some people will do anything
>> to
>> make money.
> That's logical and true.
>> Do you think it should just be a free-for-all, with no
>> regulations what-so-ever?
> That's illogical.  This isn't a zero-sum game.  We can and do have
> proper regulation of businesses.  I think people should be able to
> offer things that are generally considered legal (such as smoking) in
> their own businesses.
>> I don't think business owners have a right to subject their employees
>> and
>> patrons to known contaminants, just like they shouldn't be able to dump
>> their crap out the back door for others to deal with.
> That's illogical:  Illegal dumping and known contaminants are two
> separate issues.  One happens on ones own private property, the other
> in a public thoroughfare.
> It is also illogical because, of course, businesses don't have a right
> to subject people to noxious substances.  That would imply people had
> no choice but to subject themselves to those substances.  They do.
> They have a choice of where to work and what to patronize.
>>
>> Garrett Clevenger
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>
>> To: Garrett Clevenger <garrettmc at verizon.net>
>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 4:45:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Indoor Air Quality
>>
>> Since you don't HAVE to patronize it, it seems to me that the business
>> owners right to operate their establishment as they see fit trumps all
>> other rights.
>>
>> As I've said before, Welcome to Moscow.  Home of Big Mother.
>>
>>
>>>It seems my right to breath clean air trumps another's right to
>>> pollute it, just like my right to quiet trumps the right of the band
>>> next
>>> door to play loud all night long...
>>>
>>>
>>> Garrett Clevenger
>>>
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