[Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council

lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
Thu Jul 16 10:51:01 PDT 2009


When you first started posting, I thought that you were Bear from the Latah Eagle. When you started signing as Wayne it was apparent that you were not. Glad to know who you are.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: Wayne Price bear at moscow.com
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:22:43 -0700
To: Sunil Ramalingam sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council

> Sunil,
> 
> Thanks, some folks just don't follow with a complete thread  and just  
> have to know everything about the folks on Vision 2020.
> 
> So for those that are curious, I was born in Pittsburgh, did my under  
> grad work at Columbus State University and my graduate work at U of I.  
> I'm a graduate of both the Army and Marine Corps Command and Staff  
> colleges, I wear boxers (when I wear any at all), and something only  
> my tailor previously knew was that I "dress left". Bear was my dogs  
> name, and I used it as a call sign during my recent tours of active  
> duty and I was decorated by the US, Poland, Estonia, Bulgaria and New  
> Zealand. Think there is anything else those with a need to know want  
> to know? *S*
> 
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> On Jul 15, 2009, at 9:29 PM, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:
> 
> > I know I've said this before and I'll say it again: Wayne Price is  
> > Bear, and I don't think he's made any attempt to hide his identity.  
> > It's not as if he's Captain Kirker or one of the deliberately  
> > anonymous people that show up here from time to time.
> >
> > That said, our system of government doesn't require that one serve  
> > in the military in order to exercise power. That's not to say that  
> > there isn't value in having that experience or having made that  
> > sacrifice (which I have not done) before requiring it of others. Not  
> > that Dick Cheney is paying attention...and Rumsfeld served, and that  
> > doesn't make his policies more palatable to me.
> >
> > Sunil
> >
> > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:31:05 -0700
> > From: starbliss at gmail.com
> > To: suehovey at moscow.com
> > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
> >
> > A "W" passes for a signature?  There's a certain "W" this can refer  
> > to (Oliver Stone's film titled simply "W"), who should be in prison  
> > for war crimes.  Not someone I'd want to be mistaken for...
> >
> > Vision2020 participants can easily sign their full names to their  
> > posts, unless they have something to hide or worry about (what might  
> > my boss or spouse think?).  This can lessen confusion about who  
> > posted what, especially when someone is using an e-mail address that  
> > does not contain a person's full name, such as the bear at moscow.com  
> > address.  Tom Hansen's e-mail address in my Google e-mail account  
> > includes his full name. bear at moscow.com does not.  So even if Tom  
> > Hansen does not sign his post, I can read that it was sent by "Tom  
> > Hansen," in the e-mail address window.  There is no name in the e- 
> > mail address window along with bear at moscow.com, at least in my Gmail  
> > e-mail account.
> >
> > "Bear" is not the legal name of the person Sue should have responded  
> > to... Or is it?
> >
> > To address the essence of Sue's concerns, I also wonder why the  
> > issue of who is or is not a veteran was raised in this discussion.
> >
> > Ted Moffett
> >
> >
> > On 7/15/09, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
> > Then I owe Tom an apology. And I do apologize, Tom.   When I read the
> > emails, I did not see the W below the message and simply inferred it  
> > was
> > Tom's response.  It was to you, Bear,  I should have sent my reply.   
> > And so
> > I do that now.  You tie legitimacy to make a decision to "give up  
> > rights" as
> > valid only if the policy maker has fought for those rights as a  
> > military
> > veteran.  The Roderick email certainly sends the same message.    If a
> > person is not supposed  to draw that inference then I see no reason  
> > for
> > either you or the Rodericks to bring into play the issue of veteran  
> > status.
> >
> > Sue
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <bear at moscow.com>
> > To: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
> > Cc: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>; "Shelley Roderick"
> > <cjsnightclub at cableone.net>; "v2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 11:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Sue,
> > >
> > > Tom wasn't the one who asked about the veteran status of the current
> > > council, I did, and Dan Carscallen answered me and said that 2 of  
> > the
> > > current members are and that he's not one of the two.  Wayne  
> > Krauss is one
> > > of the two and lists it on his bio on the Moscow City Council site.
> > >
> > > And the reason I asked was to see if those so willing to give up  
> > rights
> > > and make the rules ever had to defend them. I think that it  
> > amazing that
> > > while I could get a cup of coffee and have a cigarette in Bosnia,
> > > Bulgaria, Estonia, Poland, Romania, Albania and several other  
> > countries, I
> > > soon may not be able to in my own home town.
> > >
> > > Wayne
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> Are you saying that one has to be a veteran to make solid  
> > decisions?  Or
> > >> if
> > >> one is not a veteran and makes a decision with which you do not  
> > agree,
> > >> their
> > >> decision is somehow less than valid because of their lack of  
> > veteran
> > >> status?
> > >>
> > >> Sue H.
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> > >> To: "Shelley Roderick" <cjsnightclub at cableone.net>
> > >> Cc: "v2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 3:15 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Just a simple question that deserves a simple, yet civil, answer  
> > like
> > >> "yes" or "no".
> > >>
> > >> Tom Hansen
> > >> Moscow, Idaho
> > >>
> > >>> Tom - Why don't you call them and ask?
> > >>>
> > >>> For those of you that wish to contact Moscow city council via  
> > email,
> > >>> here
> > >>> is
> > >>> how you can email all council members directly with only one  
> > email.
> > >>>
> > >>> 1) Go to: www.moscow.id.us/
> > >>> 2) Click on the blue "council" tab.
> > >>> 3) Click on "meet the council."
> > >>> 4) Click on "Email all council members" at the bottom of the page.
> > >>> 5) To be valid, include your full name and address for the record.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -------Original Message-------
> > >>>
> > >>> From: Tom Hansen
> > >>> Date: 7/14/2009 3:02:03 PM
> > >>> To: bear at moscow.com
> > >>> Cc: v2020
> > >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
> > >>>
> > >>> Was this email really sent to the city council?
> > >>>
> > >>> The only address on it is Vision 2020.
> > >>>
> > >>> Tom Hansen
> > >>> Moscoa, Idaho
> > >>>
> > >>>> Visionaries,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I agree with Phil's letter below, and am hoping the listees can  
> > give me
> > >>>> some information in regards to it.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> How many members of the current administration are veterans?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> W
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>  
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>> ----------------------------
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ATTENTION: YOU ARE ENTERING A SMOKE FILLED ENVIRONMENT AND  
> > WILL BE
> > >>>>> SUBJECT
> > >>>>> TO SECOND HAND SMOKE! ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK! THIS  
> > ESTABLISHMENT COULD
> > >>>>> BE
> > >>>>> HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Twenty generations have sacrificed loved ones to fight for the
> > >>>>> freedoms
> > >>>>> for
> > >>>>> which we are able to enjoy today. It is very sad to me when a  
> > small
> > >>>>> handful
> > >>>>> of people representing our city can take the blood that was  
> > shed and
> > >>>>> ignore
> > >>>>> the sacrifices made to insure our right to, "life, liberty and
> > >>>>> happiness."
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I have flown an American flag on my building since I bought it  
> > because
> > >>>>> I
> > >>>>> respect the blood, sweat and tears that allow me to do so. The  
> > city
> > >>>>> council
> > >>>>> should also respect and honor the same.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The city should agree with the Federal Government that when a  
> > person
> > >>>>> turns
> > >>>>> the age of 21, they have a mental capacity to make sound  
> > decisions and
> > >>>>> will
> > >>>>> be held responsible for those decisions in a court of law. This
> > >>>>> includes
> > >>>>> their health. The city should not impose their "personal  
> > guidance" to
> > >>>>> those
> > >>>>> who have just obtained the privilege of choice. They do not  
> > need to
> > >>>>> baby
> > >>>>> sit
> > >>>>>  However, they should be babysitting  where smoking is  
> > allowed. Where
> > >>>>> children walk our sidewalks and play in city parks.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> In regards to "employee health," No one is forced to work in a  
> > smoked
> > >>>>> filled
> > >>>>> environment. They came looking for a job. If they find it is  
> > not for
> > >>>>> them,
> > >>>>> they have the right of freedom to work elsewhere. The customer  
> > has a
> > >>>>> right
> > >>>>> to walk in my doors, or not. They even have the right to leave  
> > once
> > >>>>> inside.
> > >>>>> Liberty of choice and free will granted to us from the blood  
> > of our
> > >>>>> forefathers.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The first thing I see when I walk into city hall is a United  
> > States
> > >>>>> flag.
> > >>>>> The last thing I see when I leave city hall is a United States  
> > flag.
> > >>>>> Let's
> > >>>>> not loose what that flag stands for.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> If the city agrees to this smoking ban I would like to suggest  
> > they
> > >>>>> also
> > >>>>> consider an ordinance stopping the farmers from farming as it  
> > blows
> > >>>>> dust
> > >>>>> that I breathe that causes my asthma to flare up. Talk about a  
> > health
> > >>>>> issue!
> > >>>>> How about bringing it up to vote when approximately 60% of  
> > Moscow's
> > >>>>> citizens
> > >>>>> are back in town? Let the citizens of Moscow decide. Give them  
> > the
> > >>>>> opportunity to voice an opinion on their own freedoms and  
> > liberties.
> > >>>>> Let
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>> majority decide. Not a handful.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> 1/3 of the bars in Moscow are non-smoking by choice. The city  
> > should
> > >>>>> not
> > >>>>> interfere with the liberties of other bars and private clubs.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> You ask why other bar owners are not speaking up? How about  
> > listening
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>> ones that are. I believe in fighting for the rights and  
> > liberties of
> > >>>>> my
> > >>>>> 24
> > >>>>> employees and thousands of customers that choose to walk  
> > through my
> > >>>>> doors.
> > >>>>> They count on me.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Bill Parks, who introduced this ordinance states, "it is a  
> > work place,
> > >>>>> health issue. The only place we allow really dangerous things  
> > is in
> > >>>>> second
> > >>>>> hand smoke." Well, how about coal mines? Gas refineries? Plastic
> > >>>>> manufacturers? Paint fumes? As I understand, his company  
> > manufactures
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>> builds thing in Mexico. He pays his workers in pesos. Why  
> > isn't Moscow
> > >>>>> good
> > >>>>> enough for him to employ and manufacture his wares here? Could  
> > it be
> > >>>>> government enforced workman's comp? Minimum wage? Social  
> > Security
> > >>>>> taxes?
> > >>>>> Not
> > >>>>> to forget the OSHA laws which are not enforced in Mexico? Why  
> > Bill
> > >>>>> Parks
> > >>>>> do
> > >>>>> you choose to have your companies in Mexico? I can tell you  
> > why I
> > >>>>> choose
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>> have mine in Moscow, Idaho.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The chains of slavery on business were cut in 1776. Let's not  
> > put them
> > >>>>> back
> > >>>>> on.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Let freedom ring.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Phil Roderick
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>  
> > cjs 
> > @turbonet.com=======================================================
> > >>>>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >>>>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >>>>>                http://www.fsr.net
> > >>>>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >>>>> =======================================================
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> =======================================================
> > >>>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >>>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >>>>                http://www.fsr.net
> > >>>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >>>> =======================================================
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it  
> > to
> > >>> change
> > >>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> > >>>
> > >>> - Unknown
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> =======================================================
> > >>>   List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >>>   serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >>>                http://www.fsr.net
> > >>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >>> =======================================================
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
> > >> change
> > >> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> > >>
> > >> - Unknown
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> =======================================================
> > >>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >>                http://www.fsr.net
> > >>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >> =======================================================
> > >>
> > >> =======================================================
> > >>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >>                http://www.fsr.net
> > >>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >> =======================================================
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >               http://www.fsr.net
> >          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >               http://www.fsr.net
> >          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> 
> 
> 



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