[Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
Joe Campbell
philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Thu Jul 16 09:11:30 PDT 2009
Bear,
Could you please give us your social security number so we can do a
background check?
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 16, 2009, at 7:22 AM, Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com> wrote:
> Sunil,
>
> Thanks, some folks just don't follow with a complete thread and
> just have to know everything about the folks on Vision 2020.
>
> So for those that are curious, I was born in Pittsburgh, did my
> under grad work at Columbus State University and my graduate work at
> U of I. I'm a graduate of both the Army and Marine Corps Command and
> Staff colleges, I wear boxers (when I wear any at all), and
> something only my tailor previously knew was that I "dress left".
> Bear was my dogs name, and I used it as a call sign during my recent
> tours of active duty and I was decorated by the US, Poland, Estonia,
> Bulgaria and New Zealand. Think there is anything else those with a
> need to know want to know? *S*
>
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
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> On Jul 15, 2009, at 9:29 PM, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:
>
>> I know I've said this before and I'll say it again: Wayne Price is
>> Bear, and I don't think he's made any attempt to hide his identity.
>> It's not as if he's Captain Kirker or one of the deliberately
>> anonymous people that show up here from time to time.
>>
>> That said, our system of government doesn't require that one serve
>> in the military in order to exercise power. That's not to say that
>> there isn't value in having that experience or having made that
>> sacrifice (which I have not done) before requiring it of others.
>> Not that Dick Cheney is paying attention...and Rumsfeld served, and
>> that doesn't make his policies more palatable to me.
>>
>> Sunil
>>
>> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:31:05 -0700
>> From: starbliss at gmail.com
>> To: suehovey at moscow.com
>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
>>
>> A "W" passes for a signature? There's a certain "W" this can refer
>> to (Oliver Stone's film titled simply "W"), who should be in prison
>> for war crimes. Not someone I'd want to be mistaken for...
>>
>> Vision2020 participants can easily sign their full names to their
>> posts, unless they have something to hide or worry about (what
>> might my boss or spouse think?). This can lessen confusion about
>> who posted what, especially when someone is using an e-mail address
>> that does not contain a person's full name, such as the bear at moscow.com
>> address. Tom Hansen's e-mail address in my Google e-mail account
>> includes his full name. bear at moscow.com does not. So even if Tom
>> Hansen does not sign his post, I can read that it was sent by "Tom
>> Hansen," in the e-mail address window. There is no name in the e-
>> mail address window along with bear at moscow.com, at least in my
>> Gmail e-mail account.
>>
>> "Bear" is not the legal name of the person Sue should have
>> responded to... Or is it?
>>
>> To address the essence of Sue's concerns, I also wonder why the
>> issue of who is or is not a veteran was raised in this discussion.
>>
>> Ted Moffett
>>
>>
>> On 7/15/09, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
>> Then I owe Tom an apology. And I do apologize, Tom. When I read the
>> emails, I did not see the W below the message and simply inferred
>> it was
>> Tom's response. It was to you, Bear, I should have sent my
>> reply. And so
>> I do that now. You tie legitimacy to make a decision to "give up
>> rights" as
>> valid only if the policy maker has fought for those rights as a
>> military
>> veteran. The Roderick email certainly sends the same message.
>> If a
>> person is not supposed to draw that inference then I see no reason
>> for
>> either you or the Rodericks to bring into play the issue of veteran
>> status.
>>
>> Sue
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <bear at moscow.com>
>> To: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
>> Cc: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>; "Shelley Roderick"
>> <cjsnightclub at cableone.net>; "v2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 11:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Sue,
>> >
>> > Tom wasn't the one who asked about the veteran status of the
>> current
>> > council, I did, and Dan Carscallen answered me and said that 2 of
>> the
>> > current members are and that he's not one of the two. Wayne
>> Krauss is one
>> > of the two and lists it on his bio on the Moscow City Council site.
>> >
>> > And the reason I asked was to see if those so willing to give up
>> rights
>> > and make the rules ever had to defend them. I think that it
>> amazing that
>> > while I could get a cup of coffee and have a cigarette in Bosnia,
>> > Bulgaria, Estonia, Poland, Romania, Albania and several other
>> countries, I
>> > soon may not be able to in my own home town.
>> >
>> > Wayne
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ---
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>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Are you saying that one has to be a veteran to make solid
>> decisions? Or
>> >> if
>> >> one is not a veteran and makes a decision with which you do not
>> agree,
>> >> their
>> >> decision is somehow less than valid because of their lack of
>> veteran
>> >> status?
>> >>
>> >> Sue H.
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>> >> To: "Shelley Roderick" <cjsnightclub at cableone.net>
>> >> Cc: "v2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 3:15 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Just a simple question that deserves a simple, yet civil, answer
>> like
>> >> "yes" or "no".
>> >>
>> >> Tom Hansen
>> >> Moscow, Idaho
>> >>
>> >>> Tom - Why don't you call them and ask?
>> >>>
>> >>> For those of you that wish to contact Moscow city council via
>> email,
>> >>> here
>> >>> is
>> >>> how you can email all council members directly with only one
>> email.
>> >>>
>> >>> 1) Go to: www.moscow.id.us/
>> >>> 2) Click on the blue "council" tab.
>> >>> 3) Click on "meet the council."
>> >>> 4) Click on "Email all council members" at the bottom of the
>> page.
>> >>> 5) To be valid, include your full name and address for the
>> record.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -------Original Message-------
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Tom Hansen
>> >>> Date: 7/14/2009 3:02:03 PM
>> >>> To: bear at moscow.com
>> >>> Cc: v2020
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
>> >>>
>> >>> Was this email really sent to the city council?
>> >>>
>> >>> The only address on it is Vision 2020.
>> >>>
>> >>> Tom Hansen
>> >>> Moscoa, Idaho
>> >>>
>> >>>> Visionaries,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I agree with Phil's letter below, and am hoping the listees
>> can give me
>> >>>> some information in regards to it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> How many members of the current administration are veterans?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> W
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> ----------------------------
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ATTENTION: YOU ARE ENTERING A SMOKE FILLED ENVIRONMENT AND
>> WILL BE
>> >>>>> SUBJECT
>> >>>>> TO SECOND HAND SMOKE! ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK! THIS
>> ESTABLISHMENT COULD
>> >>>>> BE
>> >>>>> HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Twenty generations have sacrificed loved ones to fight for the
>> >>>>> freedoms
>> >>>>> for
>> >>>>> which we are able to enjoy today. It is very sad to me when a
>> small
>> >>>>> handful
>> >>>>> of people representing our city can take the blood that was
>> shed and
>> >>>>> ignore
>> >>>>> the sacrifices made to insure our right to, "life, liberty and
>> >>>>> happiness."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I have flown an American flag on my building since I bought
>> it because
>> >>>>> I
>> >>>>> respect the blood, sweat and tears that allow me to do so.
>> The city
>> >>>>> council
>> >>>>> should also respect and honor the same.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The city should agree with the Federal Government that when a
>> person
>> >>>>> turns
>> >>>>> the age of 21, they have a mental capacity to make sound
>> decisions and
>> >>>>> will
>> >>>>> be held responsible for those decisions in a court of law. This
>> >>>>> includes
>> >>>>> their health. The city should not impose their "personal
>> guidance" to
>> >>>>> those
>> >>>>> who have just obtained the privilege of choice. They do not
>> need to
>> >>>>> baby
>> >>>>> sit
>> >>>>> However, they should be babysitting where smoking is
>> allowed. Where
>> >>>>> children walk our sidewalks and play in city parks.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> In regards to "employee health," No one is forced to work in
>> a smoked
>> >>>>> filled
>> >>>>> environment. They came looking for a job. If they find it is
>> not for
>> >>>>> them,
>> >>>>> they have the right of freedom to work elsewhere. The
>> customer has a
>> >>>>> right
>> >>>>> to walk in my doors, or not. They even have the right to
>> leave once
>> >>>>> inside.
>> >>>>> Liberty of choice and free will granted to us from the blood
>> of our
>> >>>>> forefathers.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The first thing I see when I walk into city hall is a United
>> States
>> >>>>> flag.
>> >>>>> The last thing I see when I leave city hall is a United
>> States flag.
>> >>>>> Let's
>> >>>>> not loose what that flag stands for.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If the city agrees to this smoking ban I would like to
>> suggest they
>> >>>>> also
>> >>>>> consider an ordinance stopping the farmers from farming as it
>> blows
>> >>>>> dust
>> >>>>> that I breathe that causes my asthma to flare up. Talk about
>> a health
>> >>>>> issue!
>> >>>>> How about bringing it up to vote when approximately 60% of
>> Moscow's
>> >>>>> citizens
>> >>>>> are back in town? Let the citizens of Moscow decide. Give
>> them the
>> >>>>> opportunity to voice an opinion on their own freedoms and
>> liberties.
>> >>>>> Let
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> majority decide. Not a handful.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 1/3 of the bars in Moscow are non-smoking by choice. The city
>> should
>> >>>>> not
>> >>>>> interfere with the liberties of other bars and private clubs.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> You ask why other bar owners are not speaking up? How about
>> listening
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> ones that are. I believe in fighting for the rights and
>> liberties of
>> >>>>> my
>> >>>>> 24
>> >>>>> employees and thousands of customers that choose to walk
>> through my
>> >>>>> doors.
>> >>>>> They count on me.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Bill Parks, who introduced this ordinance states, "it is a
>> work place,
>> >>>>> health issue. The only place we allow really dangerous things
>> is in
>> >>>>> second
>> >>>>> hand smoke." Well, how about coal mines? Gas refineries?
>> Plastic
>> >>>>> manufacturers? Paint fumes? As I understand, his company
>> manufactures
>> >>>>> and
>> >>>>> builds thing in Mexico. He pays his workers in pesos. Why
>> isn't Moscow
>> >>>>> good
>> >>>>> enough for him to employ and manufacture his wares here?
>> Could it be
>> >>>>> government enforced workman's comp? Minimum wage? Social
>> Security
>> >>>>> taxes?
>> >>>>> Not
>> >>>>> to forget the OSHA laws which are not enforced in Mexico? Why
>> Bill
>> >>>>> Parks
>> >>>>> do
>> >>>>> you choose to have your companies in Mexico? I can tell you
>> why I
>> >>>>> choose
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> have mine in Moscow, Idaho.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The chains of slavery on business were cut in 1776. Let's not
>> put them
>> >>>>> back
>> >>>>> on.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Let freedom ring.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Phil Roderick
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> cjs@
>> turbonet.com=======================================================
>> >>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>> >>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>>>> =======================================================
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> =======================================================
>> >>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >>>> http://www.fsr.net
>> >>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>>> =======================================================
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects
>> it to
>> >>> change
>> >>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>> >>>
>> >>> - Unknown
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> =======================================================
>> >>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >>> http://www.fsr.net
>> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>> =======================================================
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it
>> to
>> >> change
>> >> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>> >>
>> >> - Unknown
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> =======================================================
>> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >> http://www.fsr.net
>> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> =======================================================
>> >>
>> >> =======================================================
>> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >> http://www.fsr.net
>> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> =======================================================
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>>
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
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