[Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
Wayne Price
bear at moscow.com
Thu Jul 16 07:22:43 PDT 2009
Sunil,
Thanks, some folks just don't follow with a complete thread and just
have to know everything about the folks on Vision 2020.
So for those that are curious, I was born in Pittsburgh, did my under
grad work at Columbus State University and my graduate work at U of I.
I'm a graduate of both the Army and Marine Corps Command and Staff
colleges, I wear boxers (when I wear any at all), and something only
my tailor previously knew was that I "dress left". Bear was my dogs
name, and I used it as a call sign during my recent tours of active
duty and I was decorated by the US, Poland, Estonia, Bulgaria and New
Zealand. Think there is anything else those with a need to know want
to know? *S*
Wayne
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Jul 15, 2009, at 9:29 PM, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:
> I know I've said this before and I'll say it again: Wayne Price is
> Bear, and I don't think he's made any attempt to hide his identity.
> It's not as if he's Captain Kirker or one of the deliberately
> anonymous people that show up here from time to time.
>
> That said, our system of government doesn't require that one serve
> in the military in order to exercise power. That's not to say that
> there isn't value in having that experience or having made that
> sacrifice (which I have not done) before requiring it of others. Not
> that Dick Cheney is paying attention...and Rumsfeld served, and that
> doesn't make his policies more palatable to me.
>
> Sunil
>
> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:31:05 -0700
> From: starbliss at gmail.com
> To: suehovey at moscow.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
>
> A "W" passes for a signature? There's a certain "W" this can refer
> to (Oliver Stone's film titled simply "W"), who should be in prison
> for war crimes. Not someone I'd want to be mistaken for...
>
> Vision2020 participants can easily sign their full names to their
> posts, unless they have something to hide or worry about (what might
> my boss or spouse think?). This can lessen confusion about who
> posted what, especially when someone is using an e-mail address that
> does not contain a person's full name, such as the bear at moscow.com
> address. Tom Hansen's e-mail address in my Google e-mail account
> includes his full name. bear at moscow.com does not. So even if Tom
> Hansen does not sign his post, I can read that it was sent by "Tom
> Hansen," in the e-mail address window. There is no name in the e-
> mail address window along with bear at moscow.com, at least in my Gmail
> e-mail account.
>
> "Bear" is not the legal name of the person Sue should have responded
> to... Or is it?
>
> To address the essence of Sue's concerns, I also wonder why the
> issue of who is or is not a veteran was raised in this discussion.
>
> Ted Moffett
>
>
> On 7/15/09, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
> Then I owe Tom an apology. And I do apologize, Tom. When I read the
> emails, I did not see the W below the message and simply inferred it
> was
> Tom's response. It was to you, Bear, I should have sent my reply.
> And so
> I do that now. You tie legitimacy to make a decision to "give up
> rights" as
> valid only if the policy maker has fought for those rights as a
> military
> veteran. The Roderick email certainly sends the same message. If a
> person is not supposed to draw that inference then I see no reason
> for
> either you or the Rodericks to bring into play the issue of veteran
> status.
>
> Sue
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <bear at moscow.com>
> To: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
> Cc: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>; "Shelley Roderick"
> <cjsnightclub at cableone.net>; "v2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 11:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
>
>
> >
> > Sue,
> >
> > Tom wasn't the one who asked about the veteran status of the current
> > council, I did, and Dan Carscallen answered me and said that 2 of
> the
> > current members are and that he's not one of the two. Wayne
> Krauss is one
> > of the two and lists it on his bio on the Moscow City Council site.
> >
> > And the reason I asked was to see if those so willing to give up
> rights
> > and make the rules ever had to defend them. I think that it
> amazing that
> > while I could get a cup of coffee and have a cigarette in Bosnia,
> > Bulgaria, Estonia, Poland, Romania, Albania and several other
> countries, I
> > soon may not be able to in my own home town.
> >
> > Wayne
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Are you saying that one has to be a veteran to make solid
> decisions? Or
> >> if
> >> one is not a veteran and makes a decision with which you do not
> agree,
> >> their
> >> decision is somehow less than valid because of their lack of
> veteran
> >> status?
> >>
> >> Sue H.
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> >> To: "Shelley Roderick" <cjsnightclub at cableone.net>
> >> Cc: "v2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 3:15 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
> >>
> >>
> >> Just a simple question that deserves a simple, yet civil, answer
> like
> >> "yes" or "no".
> >>
> >> Tom Hansen
> >> Moscow, Idaho
> >>
> >>> Tom - Why don't you call them and ask?
> >>>
> >>> For those of you that wish to contact Moscow city council via
> email,
> >>> here
> >>> is
> >>> how you can email all council members directly with only one
> email.
> >>>
> >>> 1) Go to: www.moscow.id.us/
> >>> 2) Click on the blue "council" tab.
> >>> 3) Click on "meet the council."
> >>> 4) Click on "Email all council members" at the bottom of the page.
> >>> 5) To be valid, include your full name and address for the record.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -------Original Message-------
> >>>
> >>> From: Tom Hansen
> >>> Date: 7/14/2009 3:02:03 PM
> >>> To: bear at moscow.com
> >>> Cc: v2020
> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
> >>>
> >>> Was this email really sent to the city council?
> >>>
> >>> The only address on it is Vision 2020.
> >>>
> >>> Tom Hansen
> >>> Moscoa, Idaho
> >>>
> >>>> Visionaries,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I agree with Phil's letter below, and am hoping the listees can
> give me
> >>>> some information in regards to it.
> >>>>
> >>>> How many members of the current administration are veterans?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> W
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> ----------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ATTENTION: YOU ARE ENTERING A SMOKE FILLED ENVIRONMENT AND
> WILL BE
> >>>>> SUBJECT
> >>>>> TO SECOND HAND SMOKE! ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK! THIS
> ESTABLISHMENT COULD
> >>>>> BE
> >>>>> HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Twenty generations have sacrificed loved ones to fight for the
> >>>>> freedoms
> >>>>> for
> >>>>> which we are able to enjoy today. It is very sad to me when a
> small
> >>>>> handful
> >>>>> of people representing our city can take the blood that was
> shed and
> >>>>> ignore
> >>>>> the sacrifices made to insure our right to, "life, liberty and
> >>>>> happiness."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have flown an American flag on my building since I bought it
> because
> >>>>> I
> >>>>> respect the blood, sweat and tears that allow me to do so. The
> city
> >>>>> council
> >>>>> should also respect and honor the same.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The city should agree with the Federal Government that when a
> person
> >>>>> turns
> >>>>> the age of 21, they have a mental capacity to make sound
> decisions and
> >>>>> will
> >>>>> be held responsible for those decisions in a court of law. This
> >>>>> includes
> >>>>> their health. The city should not impose their "personal
> guidance" to
> >>>>> those
> >>>>> who have just obtained the privilege of choice. They do not
> need to
> >>>>> baby
> >>>>> sit
> >>>>> However, they should be babysitting where smoking is
> allowed. Where
> >>>>> children walk our sidewalks and play in city parks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In regards to "employee health," No one is forced to work in a
> smoked
> >>>>> filled
> >>>>> environment. They came looking for a job. If they find it is
> not for
> >>>>> them,
> >>>>> they have the right of freedom to work elsewhere. The customer
> has a
> >>>>> right
> >>>>> to walk in my doors, or not. They even have the right to leave
> once
> >>>>> inside.
> >>>>> Liberty of choice and free will granted to us from the blood
> of our
> >>>>> forefathers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The first thing I see when I walk into city hall is a United
> States
> >>>>> flag.
> >>>>> The last thing I see when I leave city hall is a United States
> flag.
> >>>>> Let's
> >>>>> not loose what that flag stands for.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If the city agrees to this smoking ban I would like to suggest
> they
> >>>>> also
> >>>>> consider an ordinance stopping the farmers from farming as it
> blows
> >>>>> dust
> >>>>> that I breathe that causes my asthma to flare up. Talk about a
> health
> >>>>> issue!
> >>>>> How about bringing it up to vote when approximately 60% of
> Moscow's
> >>>>> citizens
> >>>>> are back in town? Let the citizens of Moscow decide. Give them
> the
> >>>>> opportunity to voice an opinion on their own freedoms and
> liberties.
> >>>>> Let
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> majority decide. Not a handful.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1/3 of the bars in Moscow are non-smoking by choice. The city
> should
> >>>>> not
> >>>>> interfere with the liberties of other bars and private clubs.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You ask why other bar owners are not speaking up? How about
> listening
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> ones that are. I believe in fighting for the rights and
> liberties of
> >>>>> my
> >>>>> 24
> >>>>> employees and thousands of customers that choose to walk
> through my
> >>>>> doors.
> >>>>> They count on me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bill Parks, who introduced this ordinance states, "it is a
> work place,
> >>>>> health issue. The only place we allow really dangerous things
> is in
> >>>>> second
> >>>>> hand smoke." Well, how about coal mines? Gas refineries? Plastic
> >>>>> manufacturers? Paint fumes? As I understand, his company
> manufactures
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> builds thing in Mexico. He pays his workers in pesos. Why
> isn't Moscow
> >>>>> good
> >>>>> enough for him to employ and manufacture his wares here? Could
> it be
> >>>>> government enforced workman's comp? Minimum wage? Social
> Security
> >>>>> taxes?
> >>>>> Not
> >>>>> to forget the OSHA laws which are not enforced in Mexico? Why
> Bill
> >>>>> Parks
> >>>>> do
> >>>>> you choose to have your companies in Mexico? I can tell you
> why I
> >>>>> choose
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> have mine in Moscow, Idaho.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The chains of slavery on business were cut in 1776. Let's not
> put them
> >>>>> back
> >>>>> on.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Let freedom ring.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Phil Roderick
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> cjs
> @turbonet.com=======================================================
> >>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>> =======================================================
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> =======================================================
> >>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>> =======================================================
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it
> to
> >>> change
> >>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> >>>
> >>> - Unknown
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> =======================================================
> >>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>> =======================================================
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
> >> change
> >> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> >>
> >> - Unknown
> >>
> >>
> >> =======================================================
> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> =======================================================
> >>
> >> =======================================================
> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> =======================================================
> >>
> >
> >
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
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