[Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council

Sunil Ramalingam sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
Wed Jul 15 21:29:24 PDT 2009 

I know I've said this before and I'll say it again: Wayne Price is Bear, and I don't think he's made any attempt to hide his identity. It's not as if he's Captain Kirker or one of the deliberately anonymous people that show up here from time to time.

That said, our system of government doesn't require that one serve in the military in order to exercise power. That's not to say that there isn't value in having that experience or having made that sacrifice (which I have not done) before requiring it of others. Not that Dick Cheney is paying attention...and Rumsfeld served, and that doesn't make his policies more palatable to me.

Sunil

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:31:05 -0700
From: starbliss at gmail.com
To: suehovey at moscow.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council

A "W" passes for a signature?  There's a certain "W" this can refer to (Oliver Stone's film titled simply "W"), who should be in prison for war crimes.  Not someone I'd want to be mistaken for...

 
Vision2020 participants can easily sign their full names to their posts, unless they have something to hide or worry about (what might my boss or spouse think?).  This can lessen confusion about who posted what, especially when someone is using an e-mail address that does not contain a person's full name, such as the bear at moscow.com address.  Tom Hansen's e-mail address in my Google e-mail account includes his full name.  bear at moscow.com does not.  So even if Tom Hansen does not sign his post, I can read that it was sent by "Tom Hansen," in the e-mail address window.  There is no name in the e-mail address window along with bear at moscow.com, at least in my Gmail e-mail account.

 
"Bear" is not the legal name of the person Sue should have responded to... Or is it?
 
To address the essence of Sue's concerns, I also wonder why the issue of who is or is not a veteran was raised in this discussion.
 
Ted Moffett

 
On 7/15/09, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote: 
Then I owe Tom an apology. And I do apologize, Tom.   When I read the
emails, I did not see the W below the message and simply inferred it was

Tom's response.  It was to you, Bear,  I should have sent my reply.  And so
I do that now.  You tie legitimacy to make a decision to "give up rights" as
valid only if the policy maker has fought for those rights as a military

veteran.  The Roderick email certainly sends the same message.    If a
person is not supposed  to draw that inference then I see no reason for
either you or the Rodericks to bring into play the issue of veteran status.


Sue
----- Original Message -----
From: <bear at moscow.com>
To: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>

Cc: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>; "Shelley Roderick"
<cjsnightclub at cableone.net>; "v2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>

Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council


>
> Sue,
>
> Tom wasn't the one who asked about the veteran status of the current

> council, I did, and Dan Carscallen answered me and said that 2 of the
> current members are and that he's not one of the two.  Wayne Krauss is one
> of the two and lists it on his bio on the Moscow City Council site.

>
> And the reason I asked was to see if those so willing to give up rights
> and make the rules ever had to defend them. I think that it amazing that
> while I could get a cup of coffee and have a cigarette in Bosnia,

> Bulgaria, Estonia, Poland, Romania, Albania and several other countries, I
> soon may not be able to in my own home town.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> Are you saying that one has to be a veteran to make solid decisions?  Or
>> if
>> one is not a veteran and makes a decision with which you do not agree,
>> their
>> decision is somehow less than valid because of their lack of veteran

>> status?
>>
>> Sue H.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>

>> To: "Shelley Roderick" <cjsnightclub at cableone.net>
>> Cc: "v2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>

>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 3:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
>>
>>
>> Just a simple question that deserves a simple, yet civil, answer like

>> "yes" or "no".
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>>> Tom - Why don't you call them and ask?
>>>
>>> For those of you that wish to contact Moscow city council via email,

>>> here
>>> is
>>> how you can email all council members directly with only one email.
>>>
>>> 1) Go to: www.moscow.id.us/

>>> 2) Click on the blue "council" tab.
>>> 3) Click on "meet the council."
>>> 4) Click on "Email all council members" at the bottom of the page.
>>> 5) To be valid, include your full name and address for the record.

>>>
>>>
>>> -------Original Message-------
>>>
>>> From: Tom Hansen
>>> Date: 7/14/2009 3:02:03 PM
>>> To: bear at moscow.com

>>> Cc: v2020
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
>>>
>>> Was this email really sent to the city council?
>>>
>>> The only address on it is Vision 2020.

>>>
>>> Tom Hansen
>>> Moscoa, Idaho
>>>
>>>> Visionaries,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Phil's letter below, and am hoping the listees can give me

>>>> some information in regards to it.
>>>>
>>>> How many members of the current administration are veterans?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> W
>>>>

>>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> ATTENTION: YOU ARE ENTERING A SMOKE FILLED ENVIRONMENT AND WILL BE

>>>>> SUBJECT
>>>>> TO SECOND HAND SMOKE! ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK! THIS ESTABLISHMENT COULD
>>>>> BE
>>>>> HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH!
>>>>>

>>>>> Twenty generations have sacrificed loved ones to fight for the
>>>>> freedoms
>>>>> for
>>>>> which we are able to enjoy today. It is very sad to me when a small

>>>>> handful
>>>>> of people representing our city can take the blood that was shed and
>>>>> ignore
>>>>> the sacrifices made to insure our right to, "life, liberty and

>>>>> happiness."
>>>>>
>>>>> I have flown an American flag on my building since I bought it because
>>>>> I
>>>>> respect the blood, sweat and tears that allow me to do so. The city

>>>>> council
>>>>> should also respect and honor the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> The city should agree with the Federal Government that when a person
>>>>> turns

>>>>> the age of 21, they have a mental capacity to make sound decisions and
>>>>> will
>>>>> be held responsible for those decisions in a court of law. This
>>>>> includes

>>>>> their health. The city should not impose their "personal guidance" to
>>>>> those
>>>>> who have just obtained the privilege of choice. They do not need to

>>>>> baby
>>>>> sit
>>>>>  However, they should be babysitting  where smoking is allowed. Where
>>>>> children walk our sidewalks and play in city parks.

>>>>>
>>>>> In regards to "employee health," No one is forced to work in a smoked
>>>>> filled
>>>>> environment. They came looking for a job. If they find it is not for

>>>>> them,
>>>>> they have the right of freedom to work elsewhere. The customer has a
>>>>> right
>>>>> to walk in my doors, or not. They even have the right to leave once

>>>>> inside.
>>>>> Liberty of choice and free will granted to us from the blood of our
>>>>> forefathers.
>>>>>
>>>>> The first thing I see when I walk into city hall is a United States

>>>>> flag.
>>>>> The last thing I see when I leave city hall is a United States flag.
>>>>> Let's
>>>>> not loose what that flag stands for.
>>>>>

>>>>> If the city agrees to this smoking ban I would like to suggest they
>>>>> also
>>>>> consider an ordinance stopping the farmers from farming as it blows
>>>>> dust

>>>>> that I breathe that causes my asthma to flare up. Talk about a health
>>>>> issue!
>>>>> How about bringing it up to vote when approximately 60% of Moscow's

>>>>> citizens
>>>>> are back in town? Let the citizens of Moscow decide. Give them the
>>>>> opportunity to voice an opinion on their own freedoms and liberties.
>>>>> Let

>>>>> the
>>>>> majority decide. Not a handful.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1/3 of the bars in Moscow are non-smoking by choice. The city should
>>>>> not

>>>>> interfere with the liberties of other bars and private clubs.
>>>>>
>>>>> You ask why other bar owners are not speaking up? How about listening
>>>>> to

>>>>> the
>>>>> ones that are. I believe in fighting for the rights and liberties of
>>>>> my
>>>>> 24
>>>>> employees and thousands of customers that choose to walk through my

>>>>> doors.
>>>>> They count on me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Parks, who introduced this ordinance states, "it is a work place,
>>>>> health issue. The only place we allow really dangerous things is in

>>>>> second
>>>>> hand smoke." Well, how about coal mines? Gas refineries? Plastic
>>>>> manufacturers? Paint fumes? As I understand, his company manufactures
>>>>> and

>>>>> builds thing in Mexico. He pays his workers in pesos. Why isn't Moscow
>>>>> good
>>>>> enough for him to employ and manufacture his wares here? Could it be

>>>>> government enforced workman's comp? Minimum wage? Social Security
>>>>> taxes?
>>>>> Not
>>>>> to forget the OSHA laws which are not enforced in Mexico? Why Bill

>>>>> Parks
>>>>> do
>>>>> you choose to have your companies in Mexico? I can tell you why I
>>>>> choose
>>>>> to
>>>>> have mine in Moscow, Idaho.

>>>>>
>>>>> The chains of slavery on business were cut in 1776. Let's not put them
>>>>> back
>>>>> on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let freedom ring.

>>>>>
>>>>> Phil Roderick
>>>>>
>>>>> cjs at turbonet.com=======================================================

>>>>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>                http://www.fsr.net

>>>>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> =======================================================

>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.

>>>>                http://www.fsr.net
>>>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com

>>>> =======================================================
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
>>> change

>>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>>>
>>> - Unknown
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================================
>>>   List services made available by First Step Internet,

>>>   serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>                http://www.fsr.net

>>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> =======================================================

>>>
>>
>>
>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
>> change
>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>>
>> - Unknown

>>
>>
>> =======================================================
>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.

>>                http://www.fsr.net
>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com

>> =======================================================
>>
>> =======================================================
>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.

>>                http://www.fsr.net
>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com

>> =======================================================
>>
>
>

=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.

              http://www.fsr.net
         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com

=======================================================

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