[Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
g. crabtree
jampot at roadrunner.com
Mon Jan 19 11:28:56 PST 2009
Right. Clearly we all know where this oft-trod path leads and I'm going to have to respectfully decline to join you on the journey. Perhaps a nice picture postcard upon your arrival would be sufficient?
g
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Campbell
To: g. crabtree
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
It wasn't an argument. It was a reply to an argument Donovan gave and you gave before that. Your initial post talked about "taxpayer resources." My question/reply was written in response to that. In response, you shifted to a new argument. Before responding to it, I want to know if you think that your last comment is the basis for the Bigot Guy's lawsuit, or if you plan to switch to some new reason once I rebut it.
And what the heck is "taxpayer time"? Am I using taxpayer time now just because I work for the state?
Lastly, you wrote in support of Bigot Guy even though you admit below that you don't know the basis of the lawsuit. But my claim that you are a shill was offbase because ...?
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 19, 2009, at 10:31 AM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
Once again I'm confused. I thought I was directly addressing your argument. Perhaps I misunderstood. It looked to me as though you were trying to assert that since no one had yet to attach a dollar value to the matter that "it is not clear what the worry is about." I was merely pointing out a potential flaw in that line of reasoning.
For the record, I have no idea of the specifics of Mr. Glasebooks complaint. I have not spoken to him or anyone else about the matter. My point is, was, and will continue to be that IF a university employee was using taxpayer time and resources to advance a personal agenda then a private citizen is well within their rights to bring the matter up and have it addressed. Period.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Campbell
To: g. crabtree
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
Like always, you are now changing the argument from the one that I was commenting on, the one you gave originally. Are you now claiming that this is the basis of the Bigot Guy's lawsuit?
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 19, 2009, at 7:45 AM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
Lets have a look at the potential "wrong reasons:"
1. Anti Wal-Mart? Great, no problem
2. Anti corporate? Swell
3. Anti capitalism? Dandy
4. Anti religion? Fine
5. Anti Catholic, Jew, Mormon, Muslim? Well....
6. Anti Black, Brown, Yellow? Now wait a minute...
7. Anti abortion? Stop right there! Now you've gone to far!
None of these web sites would cost the tax payer any more then the other. Since we can't attach a dollar value to any of these, I guess that it's not clear what the worry is about.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Campbell
To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
Suppose someone used a UI website for the "wrong" reasons. What is the cost in actual dollars to the tax payer? If you can't put a number on it it is not clear what the worry is about.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 18, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Keely,
It might be that some members of Christ Church feel they have been unjustly attacked with the illegal and improper use of UI property by some of its employees and want to prevent it from occurring again. Which I think is understandable. Nobody wants their taxes to be used against them in biased way. There is lots of evidence that UI employees have used UI property improperly for personal use. So it would be wise to start there, in my opinion.
I don't agree with this avenue to stop this behavior though. In part because even if true, it isn't costly or inconvenient to move off UI's network and get the same services for free or easy somewhere else. And since little financial harm was done to the person filing the complaint, it won't get anyone any money except the lawyers.
Best Regards,
Donovan
--- On Sun, 1/18/09, keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
From: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, godshatter at yahoo.com, josephc at wsu.edu
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 2:46 PM
The great WalMart debate, Donovan, is not likely to be solved here on Vision, and certainly not by me. My point was that it seems an odd subject for such intense Christ Church involvement and enthusiasm.
Keely
http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:30:00 -0800
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
To: godshatter at yahoo.com; josephc at wsu.edu; kjajmix1 at msn.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Keely,
I think a lot of people like Wal-Mart because it provides jobs to people that have a hard time getting jobs elsewhere. It provides disposable goods at a price more affordable to people with lower incomes. And they like the idea of free enterprise.
I understand many of people's objections to Wal-Mart. I just don't understand why the people that object to Wal-Mart cannot understand they do good too, and are not lot a whole different than other super chain stores in the country. They are just bigger and cheaper, most the time.
Best Regards,
Donovan
--- On Sun, 1/18/09, keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
From: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
To: godshatter at yahoo.com, josephc at wsu.edu
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 12:39 PM
Isn't the main question here something along the lines of "why in God's name would a church organization's leadership be so intensely drawn to a Super WalMart store on the Palouse?"
Or, conversely, "Why in God's name would a church organization's leadership, in their desire to welcome a Super WalMart, be so aggressively snotty toward those who disagree?"
Keely
http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/
> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:44:58 -0800
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> To: josephc at wsu.edu
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
>
> The current nosuperwalmart.com site doesn't appear to be hosted by the U
> of I. I was wondering if there was an employee page that preceded the
> domain name or something.
>
> If the University is not hosting the site, then the complaint must be
> that an employee of the University worked on it. If they were told to
> work on it as normal performance of their duties, that's one thing. If
> the employee was working on it using University computers and/or during
> paid work hours, then at best you have an employee breaking the rules
> of computer usage at the U of I. That does not make the University or
> the State liable for what they were working on. If they are doing it on
> their own time, they have every right to do so.
>
> So, does this suit have merit? Any official hosting of the site, or
> employees being paid specifically to work on it by the University or the
> State?
>
> Paul
>
> Joseph Campbell wrote:
> > Get a clue. Check the source.
> >
> >
> > On 1/17/09 5:59 PM, "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I've never seen the nosuperwalmart site. What are the facts? Was it an
> >> official UI webpage? Was it the personal page of a UI employee? In the
> >> first case, they have a case. In the second, the UI is acting more as
> >> an ISP hosting personal content. I don't know the law there, but I
> >> doubt it's as cut-and-dried.
> >>
> >> What was the URL to the page?
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >> g. crabtree wrote:
> >>
> >>> I wish Mr. Glasebrook the very best in this Endeavour. The U of I was
> >>> completely remiss in allowing taxpayer resources to be squandered promoting
> >>> these causes and public officials are negligent in their duties when not
> >>> taking citizen complaints seriously.
> >>>
> >>> g
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> >>> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 10:00 AM
> >>> Subject: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Remember Dave Glasebrook?
> >>>>
> >>>> In case you don't, he's the carrothead on the left . . .
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.tomandrodna.com/Photos/102907_Glasebrook.jpg
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, he (for lack of a more appropriate pronoun) is back.
> >>>>
> >>>> Courtesy of the Moscow-Pullman Daily News.
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> Man files petition requesting action from governor on allegations against
> >>>> UI
> >>>>
> >>>> A Moscow resident has taken legal action against Idaho Gov. C.L. "Butch"
> >>>> Otter, claiming the governor "failed to faithfully enforce Idaho law."
> >>>>
> >>>> Dave Glasebrook filed a petition for a writ of mandate against Otter in
> >>>> Latah County District Court on Monday.
> >>>>
> >>>> The document states Otter "breached public faith" and Glasebrook's civil
> >>>> rights by failing to investigate Glasebrook's claims that the University
> >>>> of Idaho covered up illegal computer use over the past several years.
> >>>>
> >>>> Glasebrook claims the UI allowed an employee to run the Web site
> >>>> NoSuperWalMart.com using UI computer and phone systems. He also claims the
> >>>> UI allowed people "to send e-mail and post messages containing political,
> >>>> defamatory, threatening or otherwise prohibited activity." The claim is
> >>>> primarily related to Internet postings regarding the Moscow School
> >>>> District's 2007 levy election.
> >>>>
> >>>> Glasebrook's petition also asserts the UI violated open records law by not
> >>>> releasing certain employee and student e-mails he requested related to the
> >>>> Web site and postings.
> >>>>
> >>>> The petition requests Otter order Idaho Attorney General Lawrence Wasden
> >>>> to subpoena information about NoSuperWalmart.com, order the UI to release
> >>>> e-mail and electronic records to Glasebrook and assign an Idaho State
> >>>> Police officer to retrieve material from UI computers.
> >>>>
> >>>> Glasebrook's final request is for Otter to appear before the court
> >>>> to "explain in detail why he does not want to follow the laws he is sworn
> >>>> to uphold and why he does not want to uphold (Glasebrook's) civil rights
> >>>> and liberties."
> >>>>
> >>>> Records attached to the petition show Glasebrook has been pursuing action
> >>>> against the UI since 2007. He has requested assistance from Otter's
> >>>> office, Idaho State Supreme Court Chief Justice Daniel Eismann, Latah
> >>>> County Prosecuting Attorney Bill Thompson, Moscow Prosecuting Attorney Rod
> >>>> Hall and former UI President Tim White.
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> Now, where did I put those public records requests?
> >>>>
> >>>> Great! Here they are.
> >>>>
> >>>> Stay tuned, Moscow. More to follow . . .
> >>>>
> >>>> Tom Hansen
> >>>> Moscow, Idaho
> >>>>
> >>>> "For a lapsed Lutheran born-again Buddhist pan-Humanist Universalist
> >>>> Unitarian Wiccan Agnostic like myself there's really no reason ever to go
> >>>> to work."
> >>>>
> >>>> - Roy Zimmerman
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------
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> >>>> http://www.fsr.com/
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >
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List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
======================================================= Y>
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
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