[Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I Program Cuts)

[Darrell Keim]

You are correct, Donovan, I am "dogging on you."

I'll tell you why.

It is because I think you can do better than the negative, bitter
persona you project on Vision 2020.

You say you don't carry that negativity in your home, work or person.
I sincerely hope you are correct.  As a long time reader of Vision
2020 I see someone that is happy to bring up the faults of our area.
But, I rarely see you proposing solutions.  Nor, to my knowledge, have
I seen you make any efforts in real life to effect positive change in
our community (Again, maybe I'm wrong).  I'm told you were very active
as a student, but what have you done since then?  It is all well and
good to say "we need better jobs"or "lower cost housing," etc.  But,
aside from posting here, what are you doing to effect the change you
believe we need? There are numerous city and county councils working
on just the two issues I mention above.  These commissions are always
looking for smart, hard working people that are dedicated to Moscow.
People like you.

You posted here 79 times in December.  What positive things could you
have done for our community in that time?

I have a few more comments interspersed in the quote below:

2009/1/15 Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>:
> Lets see here Darell,
>
> You attack me, and call me negative.
>
> I suggest positive changes we should make to Moscow to keep families and
> students happy, that they have suggested to me, and you dog on me.

I haven't noticed you posting positive changes.  I've read you
pointing out negatives, but not trying to find solutions.  It is all
well and good to say "We have a need for lower cost housing."  But,
that is not posting a positive change.  It is simply pointing out a
fault.  Posting a positive change would require the additional step of
pointing out a change that could be made to begin solving the problem.
>
> I have lived in eight cities in Idaho, and eight other cities around the
> country ranging in size from a few hundred to over a million, I am fourth
> generation resident of Moscow, but according to you I haven't lived in
> enough cities or know Moscow well enough?

I never said you didn't know Moscow well enough.  I simply don't think
you are comparing apples toapples when you list the things we don't
have that other communities do.  I also think you are wrong when you
look at just Moscow, without also putting Pullman in the picture.
While the communities do compete, they're like siamese twins.  They
can't get away from each other, and they frequently compliment one
another.
>
> Humm, what is the definition of irony again?
>
i⋅ro⋅ny1   /ˈaɪrəni, ˈaɪər-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation  [ahy-ruh-nee,
ahy-er-] –noun, plural -nies. 1. the use of words to convey a meaning
that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply,
"How nice!" when I said I had to work all weekend.

> If I am negative, it must be because of the negativity I get from  certain
> people on this forum, because I certainly don't carry it in my home, work,
> or in person.

One thing I've learned:  You get what you give in life.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
> --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I Program
> Cuts)
> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Cc: "Jennifer Ingalls" <jennifer at inlandradio.com>, "vision 2020"
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 3:38 PM
>
> A couple of answers below:
> 2009/1/15 Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>:
>> Darrell,
>>
>> You obviously don't know me well if you don't know I have lived in
>> many cities, half in Idaho.
> Obviously I don't know you well.  Judging by the negative attitude you
> portray on this listserv, I think I like it that way.  I will point
> out that having lived in many cities, half in Idaho, is not a terribly
> wide breadth of experience.
> I am pointing out why students don't stay in
>> Moscow. Obviously, the people that stay in Moscow find it to their perfect
>> likely.
>>
>> But the issue is, if you want people to come here, UI and the city to do
>> well, I would focus on the positive things you can do to improve that
>> situation. Not make excuses as why we cannot, or shouldn't do anything
> to
>> help other people out.
> Focus on the positive things to improve is what I like to see, also.
> All I ever seem to see from you is the opposite.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Donovan
>>
>> --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I Program
>> Cuts)
>> To: "Jennifer Ingalls" <jennifer at inlandradio.com>
>> Cc: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, "vision 2020"
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 11:19 AM
>>
>> Donovan:
>> Have you ever lived anywhere outside of Moscow?  Especially in a
>> similarly sized community?  I have, several different places in fact,
>> and I'm willing to bet you have not.  For the size town it is, Moscow
>> has an impressive list of things for families to do.  And, despite
>> your incessant carping, a decent range of salaries, too.  The key is
>> that you have to compare apples to apples.
>> Instead of listing what you think the town doesn't have, maybe you
>> should try being positive for a change.  Perhaps the listserv will
>> help you come up with a list of things to do in town.  I'll start:
>> Great restaurants
>> Nice parks
>> Several art galleries
>> What can you add, V2020?
>>> From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:30 AM
>>> To: 'vision 2020'; Jennifer Ingalls
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I
> Program
>>> Cuts)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jennifer,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I liked doing all those things too as a child in Moscow. But lets face
> it,
>>> there is only so some many times you can visit the McConnell Mansion
>> before
>>> it no longer entertaining to a child. And camping doesn't count
>> because you
>>> have to leave Moscow to go do it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are an outdoors type of person, there are lots of things to do
> in
>>> North Idaho. But for many people that are not, it leaves something to
> be
>>> desired.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> One of the biggest complaints I heard from students was that there was
>>> nothing to do in Moscow, and why so many people supported the Student
>>> Recreation Building, which is more like a glorified and over priced
> Idaho
>>> Athletic Club with a climbing wall then a recreation center for
> different
>>> kinds of recreational activities.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do not think I have found a mother at UI that thought Moscow's
>> daycare was
>>> inexpensive. There is a huge waiting list too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What few things there are to do in Moscow, also cost a lot of money,
> which
>>> is hard to afford when you have no money, because there are no jobs
> that
>> pay
>>> above what you need to scrape by.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There is less to do in Moscow now then was when my Mother was child in
>>> Moscow.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have no bowling alley. We have no roller skating ring. We have no
> IMax
>>> Theater. We have fewer quality restaurants. We have no high tech
> gaming
>>> center. We have no science discovery park, we have no big museums. No
> race
>>> cars. No theme parks, no big fancy hangouts, we don't even really
> have
>> a
>>> year round swimming pool,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The best thing Moscow has for entertainment is the Library. Which is a
>> great
>>> library, but hardly the place that comes to mind when we want to think
>> about
>>> entertainment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, you can always THINK of something to do in Moscow, but that is
> the
>>> problem, you really have to THINK, to find something to do. Its
> Midnight
>> in
>>> Moscow, besides the bars and the Jack N the Crack drive-thru, what is
>> open?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Donovan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 1/14/09, Jennifer Ingalls <jennifer at inlandradio.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Jennifer Ingalls <jennifer at inlandradio.com>
>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I Program
> Cuts)
>>> To: "'vision 2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 1:27 PM
>>>
>>> I don't necessarily want to get into the argument about diversity
> in
>> Moscow
>>> or at UI, but I do take some issue with Donovan's statement,
> "Not
>> to mention
>>> the lack of affordable child care, or family fun activities."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I grew up in Moscow and though my family had more money than families
>> where
>>> a student is the primary financier of the household, we were not at a
> loss
>>> for family-friendly free activities (unless we were willfully bored).
> This
>>> is not to say that we can't do better as a community at providing
> free
>>> and/or inexpensive activities, but I think many of us forget those
> things
>>> that are available to us. For example, I –regretfully—cannot
> remember
>> the
>>> last time I went to the McConnell Mansion or picked up a walking tour
>> guide
>>> of the towns history and hoofed it through Fort Russell (two
> activities
>> that
>>> occupied Spring and Summer days of my youth). The library (which I
>> remember
>>> as only being the old part of the building) was cool in the Summer and
>> warm
>>> in the Winter. Organizations like Campfire, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts
> and
>>> local churches provided the three of us a lot of fun and educational
>>> activities (both our family's church of choice and the churches or
>> religious
>>> organizations of friends). My mom used to take us to Good Sam to
>> distribute
>>> our wares after craft days at the house. We'd ride bikes out to
>> Robinson
>>> Lake Park , "fish" in Hordeman's pond, or take advantage
> of
>> all the
>>> demonstrations, concerts and educational lectures the University
> offered.
>>> There were a lot of things to do!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll grant that I was a nerdy kid (still am). I, too, would love
> to
>> see more
>>> activities available after school that would appeal to "at
> risk"
>> youth (I AM
>>> doing something about that with my involvement in Latah County Youth
>>> Advocacy Council), but I don't think can jump on board with the
> whole
>>> "there's nothing to do here" claim.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jennifer L. Ingalls
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================================
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>>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>
>>> =======================================================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================================
>>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>               http://www.fsr.net
>>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> =======================================================
>>>
>>
>>
>
>