[Vision2020] Snow problems

Sat Jan 10 21:21:14 PST 2009

Saundra,

If the man didn't take a ride, he obviously was doing just fine without your help or input, like everyone else in Moscow.   

I think you are being the horse's end for being so unreasonable and judgmental of your neighbors for not sharing the same negative attitude about nature as you do.

Most the people I know in Idaho understand it snows in the winter, and don't want all their hard earned dollars wasted, or to spend 100% of their free time, shoving  and shipping snow out of the county that will be gone in a few weeks anyway.

How do you think we have survived so long without the government taking all our money, taking care of us, and telling us what to do? 

People with disabilities are given transportation, and it does the rest of a us a little bit of good not to be pampered from every snow flake. 

Taking away people's money and sense of personal responsiblity is disabling and insulting.  

If you want to address transporation problems with the sidewalks, why not work for them to be widened and ADA compliant so people in wheelchairs can use them and not have to go into the streets, instead of focusing on the pointless lazy able bodied? 

Best Regards,

Donovan

--- On Sat, 1/10/09, Saundra Lund <sslund_2007 at verizon.net> wrote:

From: Saundra Lund <sslund_2007 at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Snow problems
To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, "'Bev Bafus'" <bevbafus at verizon.net>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 4:30 PM

And you, Donovan, are a horse's rear end.  We did stop to offer him a ride,
which he declined, saying he didn't have much further to go.  Should I have
tackled him into our car?  I think not, but I did worry about whether or not
he made it home safely given the pathetic condition of the sidewalk he was
having to negotiate.

But, of course, those details have NOTHING TO DO with the fact that there
are too many sidewalks that aren't properly shoveled in the first place.
Oh, wait -- that would be confusing you with facts.

For the record, I often offer folks rides when the weather is bad, which is,
for me, one of the advantages of living in a smaller town.  Another
advantage is having community members who care about each other, an
advantage that is conspicuously absent in those neglected sidewalks.

Sometimes people accept a ride & other times they don't, but I think
it's a
darn shame that rejecting a ride literally puts folks at risk of severe
injury or even death.

It's amazing to me that the same folks who got all up in arms about the
dangerous highway crossing are full of excuses for those who choose to not
be responsible for clearing sidewalks.

Donovan, if you think it's OK to not care about all members of the
community
even in the winter, I invite you to find a place where that attitude is more
appropriate because that's not the community I want to call home.

Best Regards,
Saundra Lund
MOSCOW, ID

-----Original Message-----
From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:37 PM
To: 'Bev Bafus'; Saundra Lund
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Snow problems

Saundra writes,

"Donovan's attitude is symptomatic of the problem."

AND

"Yesterday I saw an older gentleman carrying what looked like grocery bags
trying to maintain his footing on icy sidewalks in the A Street area"

And Saundra, I think your attitude is symptomatic of the problem. We cannot
stop the ice and snow. But we can stop the car and ask an old man or woman
walking on it for a ride. If they were walking, they could not have been
that far of a drive. If you don't have time to take five minutes to drive
the man home, obviously others don't have the 2 hours everyday to remove
ice
from the sidewalks.

It is winter in Idaho, cannot handle it? Go to California. 

Best Regards,

Donovan

--- On Sat, 1/10/09, Saundra Lund <sslund_2007 at verizon.net> wrote:

	From: Saundra Lund <sslund_2007 at verizon.net>
	Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Snow problems
	To: "'Bev Bafus'" <bevbafus at verizon.net>,
donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
	Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
	Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 12:39 PM

	Donovan's attitude is symptomatic of the problem.  Other places
manage to appropriately handle the situation, so I honestly don't know
what's wrong with people here that we can't.  There are still FAR TOO
MANY
SIDEWALKS that are covered in compact ice that hasn't melted.  This is DAYS
after the last snow.  Bev, I agree with you about the problem areas you
specified, but there are other areas just as problematic forcing pedestrians
to take their lives into their hands either by walking in already too narrow
streets or trying to negotiate icy sidewalks.

	Yesterday I saw an older gentleman carrying what looked like grocery
bags trying to maintain his footing on icy sidewalks in the A Street area -
he caught my eye so then I looked at the sidewalks he was heading towards
and saw that stretches were just plain treacherous.  Kids were out playing
in that specific neighborhood so people are in town, yet many of the
sidewalks were in deplorably icy conditions.  I saw the same thing in other
parts of town, including the central business district Thursday night.
Many, if not most, sidewalks downtown and in residential districts have been
appropriately shoveled throughout the tough conditions, which makes it all
the more obvious that some people just don't give a rip.

	And, to the 20-something dude with his friends helping him carry his
brand new big screen TV into the house while the sidewalk in front of his
house has consistently been one of the worst I've seen, SHAME ON YOU!!!

	Saundra Lund

	Moscow, ID

	The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people
to do nothing.

	~ Edmund Burke

	***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2008 through
life plus 70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or
reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum without the express written
permission of the author.*****

	From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Bev Bafus
	Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 8:54 AM
	To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
	Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
	Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Snow problems

	Donovan, I'm not talking about just any sidewalk, or snow in
general.  I'm talking about two specific areas that are an extreme danger
zone.

	There is no public transit in these areas.  There are people who
have to walk.  They have boots.  They are walking, sometimes in a foot of
slush.  But why should they have to walk in the same lane as speeding chip
trucks because adjacent landowners are too lazy to clean their sidewalks?

	One of these landowners IS the City of Moscow.

	Thanks

	Bev

		-----Original Message-----
		From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com]
		Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 11:57 PM
		To: blambert at ci.moscow.id.us; dcarscallen at ci.moscow.id.us;
jweber at moscow.com; tlamar at moscow.com; wmsteed at aol.com;
wkrauss at ci.moscow.id.us; nchaney at ci.moscow.id.us; Bev Bafus
		Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
		Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Snow problems

I don't mean to sound insensitive; 

But this is Idaho. It snows. It snows a lot. If snow is such a burden for
people that they feel a need to sue people over not being available 24/7 to
remove it from every inch of city property that within 50 ft of them, they
should consider a move South. 

People, it snows, don't like it, complain to God. If someone, or a business
is being really neglectful in snow and ice removal, ask them nicely to fix
it, if they don't, write a letter to the editor to complain. 

Except for disabled parking in government and private businesses, people
should just realize it snows, and if you are unsure footed like me, you are
probably going to fall. It is just the way it is, please stop with endless
complaining about snow in Idaho in the winter, it is just a fact of life,
love your neighbor, it isn't his/her fault, and let us move on. 

Go buy a pair of boots with good traction, or stay home. 

Best Regards,

Donovan

--- On Fri, 1/9/09, Bev Bafus <bevbafus at verizon.net> wrote:

	From: Bev Bafus <bevbafus at verizon.net>
	Subject: [Vision2020] Snow problems
	To: blambert at ci.moscow.id.us, dcarscallen at ci.moscow.id.us,
jweber at moscow.com, tlamar at moscow.com, wmsteed at aol.com,
wkrauss at ci.moscow.id.us, nchaney at ci.moscow.id.us
	Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
	Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 12:49 PM
	Now that we have a break in the weather, would it be possible for
there to
	be some sort of effort to clean the sidewalks lining Highway 95
north of
	Rosauer's and south of A & W?  People are still walking in the
highway.

	There is also snow blocking parts or all of lanes in this area.

	Combine the blocked lanes with lack of sidewalks, people walking in
the
	highway and heavy truck traffic, and you have a recipe for a major
disaster.

	Thank you,
	Bev
	 Bafus

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