[Vision2020] [Spam 6.72] Re: Humane interrogations work

[Sunil Ramalingam]

Gary,

Isn't it equally legitimate for the people we're killing to take your position too?  And their friends, and there friends?

Since this thread started with torture, do you advocate that we torture prisoners?

Sunil

From: lockguys at turbonet.com
To: nielsen at uidaho.edu; jampot at roadrunner.com
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:24:31 -0800
CC: Vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [Spam 6.72] Re:  Humane interrogations work










Ah, Every day is Ashura, every land is Karbala, 
eh?
 
I'm glad we have managed to find common ground. It 
is silly to be concerned about creating martyrs as muslim extremists 
need no provocation or justification for their bloody sensless acts and 
while killing them doesn't do as much to reduce their ranks as quickly as 
I would prefer, it does put an end to the individual bad attitude and is 
far preferable to leaving them loose to kill again.
 
As has been mentioned on a parallel thread, killing 
cockroaches hasn't put an end to that problem either but no one is suggesting 
that we quit. 
 
Instead of taking exception to my solution to the 
problem and insisting that I "think of something better," why don't you 
enlighten me with your solution. Surrender, capitulation, and acquiescence 
perhaps?
 
g

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  Ralph Nielsen 
  
  To: g. crabtree 
  Cc: vision 2020 
  Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:17 
  PM
  Subject: [Spam 6.72] Re: [Vision2020] 
  Humane interrogations work
  

  Sorry, Gary, creating martyrs doesn't work. Many years ago the Christian 
  church declared, "The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the 
  Church." 
  

  Some years later, in  680 C.E., Husayn ibn Ali, the grandson of the 
  Prophet, and a small group of family members and followers were defeated and 
  beheaded by a much larger army. Ever since then their martyrdom has been 
  commemorated by millions of Muslims. Before he was slain, the martyr Husayn 
  declared, "The believer 
  should desire to meet his Lord while he is right. Thus I do not see death but 
  as happiness, and living with tyrants but as sorrow." 
  

  Gary, you've got to think of something better than just killing 
  people.
  

  Ralph
  


  
   g. crabtree wrote:
  
    I don't know about Roger but I'm A-OK with dead 
    terrorists. It certainly is a deterrent for the individual terrorist in 
    question and as to their becoming one more martyr, who cares? It's not as 
    though the lack would result in any reduction in anti American/western 
    violence. After all, Who was Bin Laden avenging? What about Mohamed Atta, 
    Marwan Al-Shehhi, Fayez Ahmed, Mohald Alshehri, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed 
    Alghamdi, Waleed M Alshehri, Wail Alshehri, Abdulaziz Alomari, Satam Al 
    Suqami, Khalid Al-Midhar, Majed Moqed, Nawaq Alhamzi, Salem Alhamzi, Hani 
    Hanjour, Ahmed Alhaznawi, Ahmed Alnami, Ziad Jarrahi and Saeed Alghamdi? 
    There is no question but what were we to cease bringing terrorists down to 
    room temperature the violence would still go on and on and on.
    

    g
    

    

    
      Roger,
      

      Maybe you don't like torturing people. But why do 
      you deliberately
      want to kill people? They don't do things like 
      that in civilized
      countries. It doesn't work as a deterrent and, as 
      I have already
      pointed out, it only makes martyrs out of them. I 
      repeat: Whose side
      are you on?
      

      Ralph
      

      

      
        Ralph
        That ia a ludicrous statement. If you have read 
        my posts it should
        be clear that I do not like torture. Whether he 
        thinks he would be
        a martyr or not is irrelevant. To my mind he 
        would not be a martyr,
        just a fanatic who got what was coming to 
        him.
        Roger
        

        

        
          

          Nick
          [snip]
          

          Khalid Scheiikh Mohammed is a fanatic and it 
          is doubtful you could
          appeal to his good side. He wants to executed 
          so he can be a martyr.
          I would grant his wish. It is to be expected 
          that you will get a lot
          of misinformation and this should be taked 
          into account.
          

          Roger
          

          Roger, I get the impression that you really 
          enjoy torturing and
          killing people. Why should we make a martyr 
          out of anyone, least of
          all of a fanatic? Whose side are you 
on?
          

          Ralph
          

      

  
  


  
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