[Vision2020] Is Holder a coward?

Thu Feb 19 13:45:57 PST 2009

Up front, I'll say I'm joking . . . kind of.

I understand the concerns on at least two sides of the issue, and like
Darrell, I'm glad I'm not the one making the decisions.  My sense of justice
demands accountability and consequences for those who in so many ways
crapped all over our Constitution, but I understand the points Wax and
others are making.

However, there may be a better solution J  I think there are other countries
who would be willing to prosecute some of the war crimes committed by the
Bush administration, particularly if they knew they'd have our blessings.
Perhaps we should work behind the scenes to make sure that's the case, then
send the worst offenders on "all expenses paid" vacations to those
countries, and let war crimes tribunals deal with them  J

Personally, I think the odds are better of having anything meaningful happen
to the perpetrators elsewhere than here where the good ol' boys network is
still so very alive and well!

Saundra Lund

Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.

~ Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2009 through life plus
70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside
the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
author.*****

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Sunil Ramalingam
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:24 AM
Cc: vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Is Holder a coward?

Darrell,

Thanks for the response.  A few weeks ago, Steven Wax spoke at the law
school about his experiences representing Brandon Mayfield, the Oregon
lawyer wrongly accused of involvement in the Madrid train bombings, as well
as individuals held in Guantanimo.

Here's a link to his book:

http://www.otherpress.com/bookpage.php?bkID=540

He doesn't think that the Obama Administration should seek criminal
prosecutions of members of the Bush Administration, saying that it would
take too much political capital and tie down the new administration; his
argument is similar to yours.

He thinks we should have some sort of commission that investigates and lays
out what has happened, so that it doesn't get buried or brushed aside.  

I can see the points both you and Wax are making.  Wax was a prosecutor
(involved in the Son of Sam prosecution in NY back in the late 70s) before
becoming a federal public defender, and has been doing this a long time. I'm
not sure I'm ready to agree with him, but I was impressed that someone who
has been in the trenches takes this position.

And at the same time, I think Bush/Cheney did what they did because they
figured they could get away with it. I can't say I know the answer, but I
think to take no action would be wrong.

Sunil

> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:12:08 -0800
> From: keim153 at gmail.com
> To: thansen at moscow.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Is Holder a coward?
> 
> Sunil and Tom:
> 
> Every one of your points is excellent. Going back to my Ford/Nixon
> example, many of the same points would apply. Ford made a tough
> decision, and committed political suicide in doing so. Right now our
> nation needs to pick itself up, dust itself off, and find the right
> direction to go. I know where I'd like that direction to be, planning
> and preparing for the future, and believe we need to focus all our
> energies on it. Trying to go after the past administration would be
> very difficult, full of potential landmines. And it would consume a
> lot of the energy that could better be used in forward motion.
> 
> In the end, though, I can see both sides. I am very glad I don't need
> to make the decision.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> > Darrell -
> >
> > The two ("looking forward" and "correcting the past") are not mutually
> > exclusive.
> >
> > Do you realize that the city of Marlboro City, New Hampshire has issued
an
> > indictment against both (and each) George Bush and Dick Cheney?
> >
> > Do you realize that some governments in Europe cconsider Rumsfeld to be
a
> > war criminal?
> >
> > If the United States does not investigate various questionable (to put
it
> > kindly) of the previous administration, how would you expect the world
> > community to respond the next time the United States pursues crimes
> > against humanity committed by another Milosevic or Saddam Hussein?
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> >
> >
> >> I don't know. I lookat it like Ford pardoning Nixon. A tough call to
> >> make, but it gives the nation a chance to move on. Do you think we
> >> should be looking backwards or forwards right now?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
wrote:
> >> > If the current administration does not fully investigate the various
> >> > questionable (to put it kindly) activities of the Bush
administration,
> > and
> >> > criminal charges are not forthcoming, I will lose one HELL of alot of
> >> > respect for the Obama administration, beginning with Barack himself.
> >> >
> >> > Note to Roger Falen: Alas, Roger! Something of which I would
> > SERIOUSLY
> >> > criticise Obama. How's that?
> >> >
> >> > Tom Hansen
> >> > Moscow, Idaho
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Holder said yesterday that we are a nation of "cowards" when it
comes
> > to
> >> > di> scussions on race. . . . .
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> How about it Mr. Holder. . . . are you going to be a "coward" when
it
> >> > comes> to an investigation of Rove & Company?

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20090219/016205bb/attachment.html 