[Vision2020] Obesity Compared To Tobacco: Premature Deaths: Physical Activity & Obesity

[Joe Campbell]

Obesity is likely genetic to a large extent, too. But one difference  
is there is no such thing as second-hand fat. If I eat a hamburger, it  
does no damage to the guy sitting next to me. Not true if I have a  
cigarette. Laws against obesity would be entirely paternalistic,  
protecting people from themselves. Smoking in public places different  
in this regard.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 17, 2009, at 9:38 PM, Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com> wrote:

> It is important to point out that comparing obesity to tobacco use  
> requires clarification.  Obesity is a medical condition brought on  
> by genetics, sometimes, and at least two forms of behavior, food  
> consumption and exercise levels.  Obesity is not a "behavior."  
> Tobacco use is a behavior, not a medical condition, though of course  
> it can cause medical conditions.
>
> Also, obesity is not necessarily caused by eating unhealthy foods,  
> but by eating too much food, coupled with lack of exercise.  Someone  
> eating an excessive amount of organic pasta and spaghetti sauce, and  
> brown rice, beans and veggies, who lays on the couch all day doing  
> nothing else, could become obese.
>
> Given that the medical condition of obesity has several behavioral  
> causes, it is misleading to compare it as a cause of premature death  
> to tobacco use, which is a single behavioral cause of premature death.
>
> To compare tobacco use as a behavioral cause of premature death to  
> the behavioral causes of obesity, as they all contribute in varying  
> amounts to premature death, indicates separately comparing the  
> contribution of diet, as a behavior, to obesity, and lack of  
> exercise, as a behavior, to obesity, with tobacco use.
>
> Eating too much food is a behavioral risk for premature death.  Lack  
> of exercise is a behavioral risk for premature death.  Tobacco use  
> is a behavioral risk for premature death.  Among the three, which is  
> a greater risk?
>
> Is this analysis flawed?
>
> Ted Moffett
>
> On 8/17/09, Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com> wrote:
> Apparently the Centers for Disease Control should update and correct  
> their website, if you are correct about obesity (which is not caused  
> only by diet, in many cases, but by lack of exercise.  Obesity can  
> occur with over consumption of calories, even from low fat food,  
> compared to calorie burn) being as much or greater a health risk  
> than tobacco.
>
> They continue to unequivocally declare "tobacco is the single most  
> preventable cause of disease, disability and death in the United  
> States."
>
> I am not trying to minimize anything regarding the risks of  
> obesity.  I only quoted the Centers for Disease Control from their  
> current 2009 website, which at this moment continues to state in  
> bold letters that tobacco is the nation's leading killer:
>
> http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/publications/aag/pdf/tobacco.pdf
>
> Perhaps they are wrong.  But this discussion is not essential to my  
> argument about banning smoking in bars.
>
> You do not address what is an essential aspect of my argument  
> regarding supporting a smoking ban in bars (or any workplace): that  
> workers are exposed to the smoke, sometimes over their entire shift,  
> with no way to avoid breathing the smoke.  A worker at McDonald's,  
> for example, does not have to eat part of the Big Macs the customers  
> order and eat.  In fact, a worker at McDonald's does not have to eat  
> any of the food associated with that business, at all.  So the  
> argument regarding worker safety and health, regarding workers  
> exposed to hazardous substance on the job that they cannot avoid,  
> does not apply to the case of fatty food served in restaurants.  I  
> made this argument very explicitly.
>
> I recall clearly you stated workers who do not want to breathe  
> tobacco smoke on the job in bars can work somewhere else if they  
> don't like this... I don't accept this as a valid argument to  
> justify exposing workers to hazardous and addictive substances on  
> the job.  Workers often must accept what work they can find,  
> especially in this economy.  But even if jobs were in abundance, I  
> think reasonable standards of worker safety should be applied to all  
> workplaces, and tobacco smoke exposure is hazardous, the medical  
> facts are clear.
>
> Also, if you followed my comments in this discussion carefully, you  
> would note that I mentioned that obesity is caused in great measure  
> by a lack of exercise.  So diet is only part of the behavioral  
> syndrome associated with obesity.  Low fat foods can contribute to  
> obesity in someone not exercising enough.  I can offer again, as I  
> did before, my anecdotal evidence:  I grew up in high school eating  
> the fast food diet heavy in meat, fats, etc., in very large  
> quantities, yet never became even close to obese.  Why?  Because I  
> spent most of the year running, as much as 40-70 miles a week in  
> cross country, track and on my own time, and in general led a very  
> active lifestyle.
>
> Lack of exercise is one of the most important risk factors causing  
> poor health or disease:
>
> http://www.medpagetoday.com/PrimaryCare/DietNutrition/15458
>
> From website above:
>
> The researchers focused on four factors tied to reduced disease  
> risk: never smoking, having a body mass index (BMI) lower than 30,  
> performing at least 3.5 hours per week of physical activity, and  
> following a healthy diet.
> -------------------------------------------
> Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Saundra Lund  
> <v2020 at ssl.fastmail.fm> wrote:
> Ted asked:
>
> “Can you provide a reference to the study that claims obesity is the 
>  number one cause of premature death in the US?  I have not found an 
> y credible evidence that obesity has overtaken tobacco as the number 
>  one cause of premature death, though obesity has increased, especia 
> lly among children.  It would be interesting to look at this study,  
> given it contradicts the Center for Disease Control.”
>
>
>
> Sorry for the delay in responding, Ted – this got lost in my Inbox,  
> and then my motherboard started dying, etc.
>
>
>
> In any case, I was slightly mistaken about the study I was recalling 
>  – it wasn’t specific to the US and it only looked at men:
>
> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=19244221
>
>
>
> Combined effects of overweight and smoking in late adolescence on  
> subsequent mortality: nationwide cohort study
>
> BMJ. 2009 Feb 24;338:b496. doi: 10.1136/bmj.b496.
>
>
>
> “Conclusions Regardless of smoking status, overweight and obesity in 
>  late adolescence increases the risk of adult mortality. Obesity and 
>  overweight were as hazardous as heavy and light smoking, respective 
> ly, but there was no interaction between BMI and smoking status. The 
>  global obesity epidemic and smoking among adolescents remain import 
> ant targets for intensified public health initiatives.”
>
>
>
> And, of course, I’m sure you know there have been a boatload of stud 
> ies published since the 2005 CDC study you cited showing obesity to  
> be as great a predictor of premature death as smoking – just go to P 
> ubMed and you can pull up recent studies with more than you ever wan 
> ted to know about obesity, morbidity, and mortality.  Indeed, the mo 
> re research that’s been done in recent years identifying the multitu 
> de of ways obesity negatively impacts health, the more researchers a 
> re predicting obesity will greatly eclipse smoking as the leading ca 
> use of premature death in all adult age groups.
>
>
>
> Look, the point is that neither obesity nor smoking are “healthy”  
> and both individually are huge predictors for premature death, and n 
> ot just in the US.  I guess I just didn’t understand your interest i 
> n minimizing the risks associated with obesity and premature death.  
>  In fact, lots of people who have experienced both “addictions”  
> think the food addiction and developing healthy eating habits is muc 
> h, much more difficult to beat than tobacco, particularly in these t 
> imes when more Americans are eating out – or grabbing food to go  
> – than in this country’s history . . . well, at least until the  
> GOP’s policies created the economic crisis.  With smoking, you can j 
> ust completely give it up, which isn’t something one can do with foo 
> d.
>
>
>
> And, if our City Council is going to get in the business of  
> prohibiting legal behavior, why shouldn’t they get in the businesses 
>  of telling local restaurants to serve healthier foods???  Regardles 
> s of activity levels, Ted, high fat diets aren’t healthy for anyone, 
>  nor are the low fiber foods that are epidemic on the Palouse.  I’ve 
>  heard more people than I can count comment that the most veggies th 
> ey eat are from when they eat in restaurants, which is a sad comment 
> ary.  And, with a few notable exceptions, I’ve heard lots & lots of  
> comments about the lack of affordable and healthy vegetarian options 
>  when eating out, both in the community and in our schools.
>
>
>
> Of course, I don’t think our City Council should be in the business  
> of doing either, but since they’ve done one, why not the other?
>
>
>
>
>
> Saundra Lund
>
> Moscow, ID
>
>
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people  
> to do nothing.
>
> ~ Edmund Burke
>
>
>
> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2009 through  
> life plus 70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or  
> reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum without the express written  
> permission of the author.*****
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Ted Moffett [mailto:starbliss at gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 3:33 PM
> To: Saundra Lund
> Cc: bear at moscow.com; Tom Hansen; Moscow Vision 2020
> Subject: Obesity Compared To Tobacco: Premature Deaths: Physical  
> Activity & Obesity
>
>
>
> Saundra Lund v2020 at ssl.fastmail.fm
> Wed Jun 24 11:15:40 PDT 2009 wrote:
>
>
>
> Let's see . . . obesity is either the #1 or #2 cause of premature  
> death in
> the US depending on what study you read.
>
> -------------------
>
> Can you provide a reference to the study that claims obesity is the  
> number one cause of premature death in the US?  I have not found any  
> credible evidence that obesity has overtaken tobacco as the number  
> one cause of premature death, though obesity has increased,  
> especially among children.  It would be interesting to look at this  
> study, given it contradicts the Center for Disease Control.
>
>
>
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