[Vision2020] 8 year old girl denied divorce
Joe Campbell
philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Wed Apr 15 08:18:50 PDT 2009
Just to be clear: You think that Pastor Wilson's understanding of the
Bible is wrong and that he is irrational. Right?
Joe Campbell
On Apr 15, 2009, at 8:08 AM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> wrote:
> OK Bear,
>
> You asked, I showed you where it was written. You believe whatever
> you want to believe. If I cannot convince you that Jesus said to
> love thy neighbor, not beat him, so be it. It makes no difference to
> me as slavery no longer exists and you are not being rational or
> able to look at the big picture. You just want to take little pieces
> of the Bible, take them out of context, distort their meaning in
> order to try and discredit the book and religion. You will not be
> successful, but you are welcome waste your time trying.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
> --- On Tue, 4/14/09, bear at moscow.com <bear at moscow.com> wrote:
>
> From: bear at moscow.com <bear at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 8 year old girl denied divorce
> To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, "Ralph Nielsen"
> <nielsen at uidaho.edu>, vision2020 at moscow.com, bear at moscow.com
> Date: Tuesday, April 14, 2009, 6:32 AM
>
> Donovan,
>
> YOU are wrong! NONE of the TEN COMMANDMENTS say that.
>
> The discussion was in regards to the TEN COMMANDMENTS. Matthew
> 22:34-40 does NOT list
> the Ten Commandments as they are known to all of the world and those
> that read the bible,
> except YOU of course.
>
> First, Matthew 22:34-40 is not a listing of the Ten Commandments,
> the lists known as the
> Ten
> Commandments are given in passages in two books of the Bible: Exodus
> 20:2�17, Exodus
> 34:11�27 and Deuteronomy 5:6�21.
>
> Second, depending on which religion/denomination (Jewish,
> Anglican,Reformed,Orthodox,Catholic, Lutheran or other Christian,
> the Second Commandment
> regards the following: You shall have no other gods before me; or,
> You shall not make for
> yourself an idol; or, You shall not make wrongful use of the name of
> your God. No where in
> any
> list of the TEN COMMANDMENTS is there a "cliff note version" that
> reduces the Ten
> Commandments down to two!
>
> Have a nice day
>
>
> ---
> ---
> ---
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > Bear,
> > 聽
> > Yes you did ask that, precisely your words were,
> > 聽
> > "You state below that 'God says to love your neighbor, not sell
> and abuse
> t> hem', where? In the Bible? You can't use the Bible where it
> supports your
> p> osition and then say it's聽bunk when it doesn't!"
> > 聽
> > I told you where it says that, precisely;
> > 聽
> > Matthew 22:34-40
> > 聽
> > "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with
> all your
> so> ul, and with all your mind. is the greatest and first
> commandment. And a
> se> cond is like it: You shall love聽your neighbor as yourself. On th
> ese
> tw> o commandments hang all the
> > law and the prophets."
> > 聽
> > It is the second commandment, that is where it says slavery and
> abuse of
> sl> aves is wrong.
> > Because you are suppose to love thy neighbor as thy self.
> > 聽
> > Best Regards,
> > 聽
> > Donovan
> >
> > 聽
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Mon, 4/13/09, bear at moscow.com <bear at moscow.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: bear at moscow.com <bear at moscow.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 8 year old girl denied divorce
> > To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, "Ralph Nielsen"
> <niels> en at uidaho.edu>, vision2020 at moscow.com, bear at moscow.com
> > Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 5:56 PM
> >
> >
> > NO Donovan, I NEVER asked that. What I ask was WHICH one of the ten
> command> ments YOU
> > were quoting. YOU stated," First, the Ten Commandants say to "Love
> your
> Nei> ghbor". Do you
> > disagree?" It is your quote, not mine.
> >
> > I said that I disagree and am asking YOU which of the TEN
> COMMANDMENTS
> says> that.
> >
> >
> >
> ---
> ---
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> -
> >
> >
> > > Bear,
> > > 脗聽
> > > You asked where it said in the Bible not to sell your neighbor
> and abuse
> > th> em.
> > > 脗聽
> > > It says in the Bible, directly from Jesus,
> > > 脗聽
> > > "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart,
> > > and with all your soul, and with all your mind. is the greatest
> > > and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love
> > > your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the
> > > law and the prophets.-Jesus---Matthew 22:34-40
> > > 脗聽
> > > Unless you want to absurdly assert that selling someone into
> slavery and
> > ab> use is not contrary to脗聽loving them, your question has been
> > satisfactor> ily answered as to where it says slavery and abuse of
> your
> nei> ghbor is
> > wron> g in the Bible.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > > 脗聽
> > > Donovan
> > > 脗聽
> > >
> > > --- On Mon, 4/13/09, bear at moscow.com <bear at moscow.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: bear at moscow.com <bear at moscow.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 8 year old girl denied divorce
> > > To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, "Ralph
> Nielsen"
> > <niels> en at uidaho.edu>, vision2020 at moscow.com, bear at moscow.com
> > > Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 5:04 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > Donovan,
> > >
> > > I'm afraid I DO disagree, which commandment says that?
> > >
> > > The 10 Commandments are found in the Bible's Old Testament at
> Exodus,
> > Chapt> er 20. They
> > > were given directly by God to the people of Israel at Mount
> Sinai after
> H> e
> > > had delivered
> > > them
> > > from slavery in Egypt:
> > > "And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your
> God芒�> 偓娄
> > >
> > > ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'
> > > TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any
> likeness of
> > anyth> ing that is in
> > > heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the
> water
> > unde> r the earth.'
> > > THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'
> > > FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'
> > > FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'
> > > SIX: 'You shall not murder.'
> > > SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'
> > > EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'
> > > NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'
> > > TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not
> covet your
> > n> eighbor's wife,
> > > nor
> > > his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his
> donkey, nor
> > a> nything that is
> > > your
> > > neighbor's.'
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ---
> ---
> ------------------------------------------------------------------->
> --> --
> > ---
> > > > Bear,
> > > > 脙鈥毭偮�
> > > > First, the Ten Commandants say to "Love your Neighbor". Do you
> disagree> ?
> > > > 脙鈥毭偮�
> > > >
> > > >
> 脙垄芒鈥毬嬇撁兟⒚⑩�> 毬呪�淵ou shall love
> the Lord your
> > Go> d with all your heart,
> > > and>脗聽 with all your soul, and with all your
> > mind.脙垄芒鈥毬�> 陆 This is the
> grea> test
> > > > and first commandment. And a second is like it:
> 脙垄芒�> �毬呪�淵ou
> > > shall love
> > > you> r neighbour as
> yourself.脙垄芒鈥毬> 柯� On these two
> > commandm> ents hang all the
> > > la> w and the
> > prophets.脙垄芒鈥毬⑩�灺�--Jesus�> 兟⒚⑩�毬
> ⑩偓> 锟組atthew 22:34-40
> > > > 脙鈥毭偮�
> > > > Second, Are you arguing that selling someone into slavery and
> abusing
> > the> m
> > > > is not contrary to脙鈥毭偮爐his law?
> > > > 脙鈥毭偮�
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > > 脙鈥毭偮�
> > > > Donovan
> > > >
> > > > --- On Mon, 4/13/09, bear at moscow.com <bear at moscow.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: bear at moscow.com <bear at moscow.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 8 year old girl denied divorce
> > > > To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, "Ralph
> Nielsen"
> > > <niels> en at uidaho.edu>, vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > > Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 4:16 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Donovan,
> > > >
> > > > You state below that "God says to love your neighbor, not sell
> and
> abus> e
> > > th> em", where? In
> > > > the
> > > > Bible?
> > > > You can't use the Bible where it supports your position and
> then say
> it> 's
> > > b> unk when it
> > > > doesn't!
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> ---
> ---
> ------------------------------------------------------------------->
> > --> --
> > > -
> > > > > Ralph, 脙鈥毭偮�
> > > > > The Bible is not the law of the land. And I don't know of
> any men,
> > > > including Wilson, that want to adopt Leviticus or Exodus as
> > such.脙鈥�> 脗聽
> > > 脙鈥�> 脗聽
> > > > > God says to love your neighbor, not sell and abuse them.
> 脙鈥> 毭偮�
> > > > > Women were sold in ancient times, or given a
> dowry,脙鈥毭> 偮爄n
> > order>聽 to
> > > repa> y
> > > > the脙鈥毭偮� father for the cost of raising and
> prote> cting her, which
> > > was
> > > expe> nsive to
> > > > > do. You have to watch them 24 hours a day.
> > > > > 脙鈥毭偮�
> > > > > Your interpretation of God, and the Bible seems extremely
> corrupted.
> > > > Perhaps it is your prejudice against people that know a loving
> God
> > > exists.>脗聽
> > > > > 脙鈥毭偮�
> > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > > 脙鈥毭偮�
> > > > > Donovan
> > > > >
> > > > > --- On Mon, 4/13/09, Ralph Nielsen <nielsen at uidaho.edu> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Ralph Nielsen <nielsen at uidaho.edu>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 8 year old girl denied divorce
> > > > > To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> > > > > Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > > > Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 2:54 PM
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't think anyone suggested that he was, Donovan. But
> there are
> al> l
> > > to> o
> > > > > many like him who want to make it the law of the
> land.脙鈥�> 脗聽
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > As I pointed out, the God of the Bible says it is OK for a
> father to
> > se> ll
> > > > h> is daughter into slavery. Doug seems to lack a sense of
> morality so
> > he
> > > > goes>脙鈥毭偮� by the rule that if it's biblical,
> it'> s moral.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ralph
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Apr 13, 2009, at 2:22 PM, Donovan Arnold wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wilson is not the law of the land. He is not in a position
> to enforce
> > h> is
> > > > r> eligious symbolism literally on the country. Only people
> that wish
> t> o
> > > > follo> w his words do, not by force.
> > > > > 脙鈥毭偮�
> > > > > There seems to be a deep sense of confusion amongst some
> liberals
> > betwe> en
> > > > r> eligious symbolism and an actual judge and government
> forcing an 8
> > yea> r
> > > > old>脙鈥毭偮� girl to marry a 40-something year old
> m> an.
> > > > > 脙鈥毭偮�
> > > > > As a Christian, I believe, and my religious leaders will
> tell me, to
> > > hono> r
> > > > > my Mother and Father, and I willfully try to do so. However,
> they are
> > n> ot
> > > > a> dvocating that it be law that I do whatever my parents tell
> me to do
> > a> s
> > > > an
> > > > > adult.
> > > > > 脙鈥毭偮�
> > > > > I don't know Wilson theology, but I am sure he is against 8
> year old
> > > girl> s
> > > > > being forced to marry and do whatever a 40 year old man
> tells her to
> > do> ..
> > > > I
> > > > > am sure he is also against the buying and selling of people as
> > property> ..
> > > > Bu> t even if he wasn't, who cares, he isn't in a position, or
> seeking
> > a
> > > > positi> on, to enforce it. I am concerned with those that are
> being
> > force> d
> > > > right
> > > > no> w, and an ancient system of governing that is operates
> serious
> > > injustic> es
> > > > a> gainst people, especially women and children.
> > > > > 脙鈥毭偮�
> > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > > 脙鈥毭偮�
> > > > > Donovan
> > > > > 脙鈥毭偮�
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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