[Vision2020] 8 year old girl denied divorce

Mon Apr 13 17:34:36 PDT 2009

Ralph,

Again, you fail to address my point. 

Nowhere in the Bible does it say slavery is just or fair in the eyes of God. These are only laws protecting slaves and protecting people from slavery. 

You are not able to produce a sentence where God says, Slavery and abuse of slaves is good and of God. 

Slavery is a man made invention, and its abuse was regulated by the Bible, not commanded by it. 

Best Regards,

Donovan

--- On Mon, 4/13/09, Ralph Nielsen <nielsen at uidaho.edu> wrote:

From: Ralph Nielsen <nielsen at uidaho.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 8 year old girl denied divorce
To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 5:14 PM

This is what God said,

Exodus 21:2
When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing.
Exodus 21:7

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.
Exodus 21:20

When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.
Exodus 21:21
But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money.

Remember, Donovan, I didn't write this, nor am I interpreting it, I am just quoting it. If you sell your daughter as a slave, she shall remain a slave for the rest of her life. If you breed her, her offspring are also your slaves, which you may keep, sell, or bequeath to your sons.

Leviticus 25:44
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are round about you.
Leviticus 25:46
You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession for ever; you may make slaves of them, but over your brethren the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another, with harshness.

But remember, you may not make your slaves work on Saturdays:

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave, or your female slave, or your cattle, or the sojourner who is within your gates;

Read the Bible carefully, Doug does.

Ralph

On Apr 13, 2009, at 4:21 PM, Donovan Arnold wrote:

That line doesn't say it is OK to make your daughter a slave, it just says if you do, you protect her. Do not treat her as a male slave. It is sort of a common sense thing, as she would violated for sure. 

If I say, "You should not beat your slave.", it doesn't mean I want people to be slaves.

Best Regards,

Donovan

--- On Mon, 4/13/09, Ralph Nielsen <nielsen at uidaho.edu> wrote:

From: Ralph Nielsen <nielsen at uidaho.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 8 year old girl denied divorce
To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 4:12 PM

I am not interpreting anything in the Bible, Donovan. I am simply quoting it without comment. How can that be corrupted? I didn't write the Bible, did I? Here is what God said, believe it or not:

Exd 21:7
"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.

Ralph

On Apr 13, 2009, at 3:59 PM, Donovan Arnold wrote:

Ralph,

The Bible is not the law of the land. And I don't know of any men, including Wilson, that want to adopt Leviticus or Exodus as such. 

God says to love your neighbor, not sell and abuse them. 

Women were sold in ancient times, or given a dowry, in order to repay the father for the cost of raising and protecting her, which was expensive to do. You have to watch them 24 hours a day. 

Your interpretation of God, and the Bible seems extremely corrupted. Perhaps it is your prejudice against people that know a loving God exists. 

Best Regards,

Donovan

--- On Mon, 4/13/09, Ralph Nielsen <nielsen at uidaho.edu> wrote:

From: Ralph Nielsen <nielsen at uidaho.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 8 year old girl denied divorce
To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 2:54 PM

I don't think anyone suggested that he was, Donovan. But there are all too many like him who want to make it the law of the land. 

As I pointed out, the God of the Bible says it is OK for a father to sell his daughter into slavery. Doug seems to lack a sense of morality so he goes by the rule that if it's biblical, it's moral.

Ralph

On Apr 13, 2009, at 2:22 PM, Donovan Arnold wrote:

Wilson is not the law of the land. He is not in a position to enforce his religious symbolism literally on the country. Only people that wish to follow his words do, not by force.

There seems to be a deep sense of confusion amongst some liberals between religious symbolism and an actual judge and government forcing an 8 year old girl to marry a 40-something year old man.

As a Christian, I believe, and my religious leaders will tell me, to honor my Mother and Father, and I willfully try to do so. However, they are not advocating that it be law that I do whatever my parents tell me to do as an adult.

I don't know Wilson theology, but I am sure he is against 8 year old girls being forced to marry and do whatever a 40 year old man tells her to do. I am sure he is also against the buying and selling of people as property. But even if he wasn't, who cares, he isn't in a position, or seeking a position, to enforce it. I am concerned with those that are being forced right now, and an ancient system of governing that is operates serious injustices against people, especially women and children.

Best Regards,

Donovan

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