[Vision2020] Silos not Crossing

roger hayes rhayes at turbonet.com
Thu Sep 25 07:11:13 PDT 2008


I mistakenly wrote "Crossing" when I meant to write Silos... Sorry!
On Thursday, September 25, 2008, at 06:53 AM,  
vision2020-request at moscow.com wrote:

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>    1. Re: Say What? (Ellen Roskovich)
>    2. Re: What Makes Moscow Business-Unfriendly? (joekc at roadrunner.com)
>    3. Re: Say What? (Tom Hansen)
>    4. Say What (Some More)? (Tom Hansen)
>    5. Re: Unfriendly Church (roger hayes)
>    6. Re: Unfriendly Church (Ellen Roskovich)
>
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:52:53 -0700
> From: Ellen Roskovich <gussie443 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?
> To: Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com>, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID: <COL103-W9BCE422D7AE8BF4E7FF78E2440 at phx.gbl>
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>
> If he was decent, or had good taste, he wouldn't have posted it in the  
> first place.  Unbelievable!  T
>
> TAKE IT DOWN!
>
> Ellen A. Roskovich
>> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:43:06 -0700> From: chasuk at gmail.com> To:  
>> thansen at moscow.com> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com> Subject: Re:  
>> [Vision2020] Say What?> > On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 05:41, Tom Hansen  
>> <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:> > > "Barack Obama Shows up at the pearly  
>> gates, and St. Peter says, 'Who are> > you?'> > > 'Barack Obama, the  
>> first black president of the United States!'> > > St. Peter says,  
>> 'Never heard of you -- when did you get get elected?'> > > 'About 20  
>> minutes ago.'"> > > - cdwitmer, as displayed on Dale Courtney's  
>> Right-Mind Blog (September 25,> > 2008)> > That is incredibly  
>> unfunny. I hope Dale displays the good taste of> taking it down.> >  
>> =======================================================> List  
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> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 9:17:19 -0400
> From: <joekc at roadrunner.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] What Makes Moscow Business-Unfriendly?
> To: Ellen Roskovich <gussie443 at hotmail.com>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID:
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>
> The real joke in all of this is at the end of the article, where one  
> of the church goers talks about
> the chain reaction of allowing neighborhood bars. The big fear is  
> apparently the mixture of "cars,
> bars, and kids." But the fact is that the Silos is a neighborhood  
> establishment. It is in fact in my
> neighborhood. It prevents drinking and driving more than anything.  
> Most of the folks who frequent
> the Silos live near by and walk there. And, of course, I've never seen  
> anyone have more than a
> couple of beers there or a couple of glasses of wine. Of course, let's  
> not let the facts get in the
> way. Better to listen to speculations from folks who don't go there  
> and don't live nearby.
>
> I think that this is a real test case to be able to predict what kind  
> of town Moscow will be in the
> future. One dictated by the will of a select few with a clear agenda,  
> or a diverse community
> where people respect the rights of individuals to make their own  
> choices and live their own lives.
>
> The slippery slope that I worry about is not the one noted in the  
> article but the one noted by
> Ellen. I only hope that the council has the courage to stop it.
>
> --
> Joe Campbell
>
> ---- Ellen Roskovich <gussie443 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Is Patty's Kitchen and Taco Time going to be next on the hit list?
>>
>> Ellen A. Roskovich
>>> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:11:45 -0700> From:  
>>> sslund_2007 at verizon.net> To: vision2020 at moscow.com> Subject:  
>>> [Vision2020] What Makes Moscow Business-Unfriendly?> > 23 Sept.  
>>> 2008> > Moscow-Pullman Daily News> Moscow church objects to alcohol  
>>> at nearby cafe License up for renewal in> January, council to take  
>>> up issue at Oct. 6 meeting> By Tara Roberts, Daily News staff  
>>> writer> > The CROSSing Pastor John Houser doesn't think Cafe Silos  
>>> should be allowed> to sell beer and wine because of its proximity to  
>>> the church.> > Houser and several members of the Moscow church's  
>>> congregation attended the> City Council's Administrative Committee  
>>> meeting Monday to express their> displeasure with the nearby cafe's  
>>> ability to sell alcoholic beverages.> > Beer and wine licenses are  
>>> not normally allowed within 300 feet of a church,> but the council  
>>> waived the requirement for Cafe Silos in May 2007. The> CROSSing  
>>> moved into a Travois Way location that is next door to Cafe Silos>  
>>> in March. > > Th!
>  e council reviewed the decision in October when Pastor Rick Parsons  
> of the> Impact Church, which occupied the Travois Way building at the  
> time, objected> to the license. The council unanimously decided to  
> uphold its decision, but> agreed to review the license down the road.>  
> > The license will be up for renewal again in January, and The  
> CROSSing> members said they wanted to make their voices heard before  
> then.> > "We're just asking that the law is presented for a reason ...  
> and we're> asking that that law be reviewed," Houser said. "We would  
> like to see that> law held up with the 300-foot distance."> > The  
> CROSSing member Larry Todd argued that the beer and wine license>  
> shouldn't be allowed near a church or in a predominantly residential>  
> neighborhood. He said he's concerned about the potential mix of  
> "alcohol,> cars and kids." Part of Cafe Silos' parking is near The  
> CROSSing's> playground.> > "Anybody drinking their nice, smooth  
> merlot, when they're done, 50 percent> of t!
>  hem have the potential of having to walk past that playground, get  
> in> their car, and drive past that playground and leave," Todd said.>  
> > The CROSSing submitted several letters asking the council to revoke  
> the> license and a petition with about 50 signatures of people opposed  
> to the> license.> > Attorney Jack Porter spoke on behalf of Cafe Silos  
> owners Ray and Brenda von> Wandruszka and Rob Davis.> > He said he  
> felt some of The CROSSing members were misinformed, believing> that  
> the license is illegal. The license is legal because the council  
> waived> the requirement prohibiting beer and wine near churches.> >  
> Porter also said Cafe Silos is "not the Beach or CJ's" and has never  
> had> alcohol-related crime problems.> > "I find it offensive that they  
> think they can move into a neighborhood where> there's already an  
> established, legal business conducting itself in a quiet,> inoffensive  
> way, and say, 'We don't like alcohol so you have to stop serving> it,'  
> " Porter said.> > The committee decided to send the issue to the full  
> City Council for> discus!
>  sion at its Oct. 6 meeting. Committee members and Councilmen Bill>  
> Lambert and Tom Lamar said they are inclined to uphold the license.> >  
> Lamar, who lives near Cafe Silos, said he's never seen any sort of  
> unruly> behavior by people drinking at the cafe. He added that just  
> because The> CROSSing members complained doesn't mean the council has  
> to revoke the> license.> > "The beer and wine license has already been  
> issued, certainly for us to> review again," he said. "But I don't see  
> the neighbors or (Cafe Silos)> trying to get the church to change what  
> it's preaching."> > Houser said after the meeting that he felt the  
> committee members were asking> the church not to push its beliefs on  
> the cafe, but "forcing the business'> agenda on the church."> > Houser  
> said he and church members will attend the council meeting and speak>  
> again.> > Church member Aleta Sonnenberg said she's worried that the  
> council's> decision to uphold the license will start a chain reaction  
> of other licenses!
>> being issued near churches and schools and in residential  
>> neighborhoods.> > "It's not just the church, it's the precedent it  
>> sets," she said.> > QUICKREAD> > WHAT HAPPENED: Members of The  
>> CROSSing church asked the Moscow City> Council's Administrative  
>> Committee to consider revoking Cafe Silo's beer and> wine license  
>> because the cafe is near the church.> > n WHAT IT MEANS: The license  
>> is up for renewal in January. The council can> decide not to waive a  
>> legal requirement that prohibits alcohol licenses> within 300 feet of  
>> churches.> > WHAT HAPPENS NEXT: The full council will discuss the  
>> issue Oct. 6.> > WHY YOU SHOULD CARE: The CROSSing members say  
>> allowing beer and wine near> the church endangers children and could  
>> cause crime. An attorney for Cafe> Silos said it's unfair for the  
>> church to push its beliefs on the cafe and> its patrons.> > Tara  
>> Roberts can be reached at (208) 882-5561, ext. 234, or by e-mail at>  
>> troberts at dnews.com.> > >  
>> =======================================================> List  
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>  , > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. >  
> http://www.fsr.net > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>  
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:17:51 GMT
> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?
> To: Ellen Roskovich <gussie443 at hotmail.com>, Chasuk
> 	<chasuk at gmail.com>,	Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>,
> 	<vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Message-ID: <200809251317.m8PDHqpD064047 at mail-gw.fsr.net>
>
> I kind doubt that Courtney will take it down, Ellen, no matter how many
> people find cdwitmer's "joke" to be racist and offensive.
>
> Cdwitmer's comment was in response to Courtney's article titled "The
> Scariest Knock-Knock Joke Ever" with this PowerPoint presentation  
> included:
>
> http://media.right-mind.us/right-mind/knock_knock.pps
>
> Jokes are jokes.  You can make fun of his policies, his concepts, his
> ideals.  But when the knock-knock joke ends with Obama stating "Eyes yo
> new prezident", I consider it racist.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>>
>> If he was decent, or had good taste, he wouldn't have posted it in the
>> first place.  Unbelievable!  T
>>
>> TAKE IT DOWN!
>>
>> Ellen A. Roskovich
>>> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:43:06 -0700> From: chasuk at gmail.com> To:
> than> sen at moscow.com> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com> Subject: Re:  
> [Vision2020]
> Say
> Wh> at?> > On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 05:41, Tom Hansen
> <thansen at moscow.com>>  wrote:> > > "Barack Obama Shows up at the pearly
> gates, and St. Peter
> sa> ys, 'Who are> > you?'> > > 'Barack Obama, the first black  
> president of
>> the United States!'> > > St. Peter says, 'Never heard of you -- when  
>> did
>> you get get elected?'> > > 'About 20 minutes ago.'"> > > - cdwitmer,  
>> as
> d> isplayed on Dale Courtney's Right-Mind Blog (September 25,> >  
> 2008)> >
> Th> at is incredibly unfunny. I hope Dale displays the good taste of>
> taking
> it>  down.> >
> =====================> =========================> =========> List  
> services
> made available by First Step
> Int> ernet, > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. >
> http://www.> fsr.net > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> ===========> =========================> ===================
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> See how Windows Mobile brings your life together—at home, work, or
> on>  the go.
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>
>
>
> "Jesus was a community organizer and Poncius Pilate was a governor."
>
> - Marilyn Trail, sister of Representative Tom trail (September 8, 2008)
>
> ----
>
> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college
> students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>
> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>
>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:33:35 GMT
> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> Subject: [Vision2020] Say What (Some More)?
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID: <200809251333.m8PDXaAW004257 at mail-gw.fsr.net>
>
> "We do not support government bailouts of private institutions.  
> Government
> interference in the markets exacerbates problems in the marketplace and
> causes the free market to take longer to correct itself."
>
> - From the 2008 Republican Party Platform, under "Rebuilding Home
> Ownership" at
>
> http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/Economy.htm#6
>
> Seeya at Farmers' Market, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college
> students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>
> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> This message was sent by First Step Internet.
>            http://www.fsr.com/
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 06:31:00 -0700
> From: roger hayes <rhayes at turbonet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Unfriendly Church
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID: <3138E5EA-8B06-11DD-8ED1-0003937F0DBA at turbonet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>>
> Yet another church with a political agenda? Why in the world would they
> care? The Crossing is a quiet, unique dining establishment catering to
> an upscale clientele. This "church" bent the zoning rules by placing a
> day care in the old Goodwill store downtown. There is more to this
> story than the complaint implies.
> Roger Hayes
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 8:46:48 -0400
>> From: <joekc at roadrunner.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] What Makes Moscow Business-Unfriendly?
>> To: Saundra Lund <sslund_2007 at verizon.net>
>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<9675467.425611222346808798.JavaMail.root at cdptpa-web09-z02>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> Again I'm having trouble understanding this and maybe someone can  
>> help.
>>
>> At the very bottom of the article is says: "The CROSSing members say
>> allowing beer and wine
>> near the church endangers children and could cause crime."
>>
>> Yet they moved their church next to an establishment that sells
>> alcohol anyway?
>>
>> --
>> Joe Campbell
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 06:53:44 -0700
> From: Ellen Roskovich <gussie443 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Unfriendly Church
> To: roger hayes <rhayes at turbonet.com>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Message-ID: <COL103-W100C9A19910C78D29BA0A7E2440 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Heavens to Betsy!  A Church and a children's day care across the  
> street from a Chinese restaurant that serves BEER with it's rice and  
> noodles!
>
> Interesting. . . . .
>
> Ellen A. Roskovich
>> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 06:31:00 -0700> From: rhayes at turbonet.com> To:  
>> vision2020 at moscow.com> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Unfriendly Church> >  
>> >> Yet another church with a political agenda? Why in the world would  
>> they > care? The Crossing is a quiet, unique dining establishment  
>> catering to > an upscale clientele. This "church" bent the zoning  
>> rules by placing a > day care in the old Goodwill store downtown.  
>> There is more to this > story than the complaint implies.> Roger  
>> Hayes> >> > Message: 2> > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 8:46:48 -0400> >  
>> From: <joekc at roadrunner.com>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] What Makes  
>> Moscow Business-Unfriendly?> > To: Saundra Lund  
>> <sslund_2007 at verizon.net>> > Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com> >  
>> Message-ID:> >  
>> <9675467.425611222346808798.JavaMail.root at cdptpa-web09-z02>> >  
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8> >> > Again I'm having  
>> trouble understanding this and maybe someone can help.> >> > At the  
>> very bottom of the article is says: "The CROSSing members say > !
>> allowing beer and wine> > near the church endangers children and  
>> could cause crime."> >> > Yet they moved their church next to an  
>> establishment that sells > > alcohol anyway?> >> > --> > Joe  
>> Campbell> >> >  
>> =======================================================> List  
>> services made available by First Step Internet, > serving the  
>> communities of the Palouse since 1994. > http://www.fsr.net >  
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>  
>> =======================================================
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