[Vision2020] Bill Ayers & Barack Obama

[g. crabtree]

I guess since the argument being put forward is that Ayers should be given a 
bye because he didn't really cause any harm, the same slack needs to be 
granted to Mr. Liddy. After all, the Watergate break in was unsuccessful and 
the burglars (a fairly incompetent bunch) were all arrested. So, since no 
presidential campaign was hijacked and no vote was taken out of the hands of 
the people it seems to me that you are holding G.Gordon to a much higher 
standard. At the very least Ayers committed an act of gross vandalism and 
reckless endangerment and got off Scot free. Liddy was complicit in a failed 
break in and did five and a half years. He did the crime and he did the 
time. Throwing in some silly disclaimer whenever his name comes up seems as 
daft and unnecessary as saying "setting off bombs designed to maximize 
injury and death in public places is a very, very bad thing.

g
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <joekc at roadrunner.com>
To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bill Ayers & Barack Obama


> What would be worse: a terrorist from another land blowing up some 
> buildings or a terrorist from
> another land hijacking a presidential campaign and ensuring that one 
> candidate wins over
> another? I think that hijacking a presidential campaign is about the worst 
> thing that anyone can
> do in a democracy. I'm a bit shocked that not everyone sees it this way. 
> Like Donovan I'm no fan
> of Ayers but to post anything on this topic without condemning Liddy seems 
> to be an insult to our
> form of government. Why not at least throw in a "Oh, by the way taking the 
> vote for president out
> of the people and putting it into the hands of a few is a very, very bad 
> thing."
>
> --
> Joe Campbell
>
> ---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>> Read what I wrote. I did not claim that he killed anyone. I said that the 
>> act of setting off explosives wrapped in nails in public places is akin 
>> to attempted murder. If I light your apartment building on fire and, by 
>> the grace of God, no one is injured or killed am I mearly guilty of 
>> failure to obtain a permit for an open burn?
>>
>> g
>>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>>   From: Donovan Arnold
>>   To: Andreas Schou ; vision2020 ; g. crabtree
>>   Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:46 PM
>>   Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bill Ayers & Barack Obama
>>
>>
>>         Gary,
>>
>>         I don't condone the actions of Ayers. But he never killed anyone. 
>> To say he did is an incorrect statement. If you can demonstrate to me (an 
>> online article etc.) he killed someone, I will accept your statement as 
>> fact. Otherwise, I say your judgment and understanding on this matter is 
>> deeply in question.
>>
>>         Best Regards,
>>
>>         Donovan
>>
>>         --- On Wed, 9/17/08, g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>
>>           From: g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>>           Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bill Ayers & Barack Obama
>>           To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, "Andreas Schou" 
>> <ophite at gmail.com>, "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>           Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 5:30 AM
>>
>>
>>           "Are you insinuating that Bill Ayers tried to kill people?"
>>
>>           No, I am not insinuating I am saying it flat out. Placing anti 
>> personnel bombs in public places is attempted murder. When the vermin in 
>> Baghdad or Sader City or Fallujah set of IED's they don't know the names 
>> of those they are attempting to murder and maim. Is it your contention 
>> that they are not trying to kill people?
>>
>>           g
>>             ----- Original Message ----- 
>>             From: Donovan Arnold
>>             To: Andreas Schou ; vision2020 ; g. crabtree
>>             Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 1:42 AM
>>             Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bill Ayers & Barack Obama
>>
>>
>>
>>                   "No small accomplishment. Oh yeah, he has never 
>> attempted to slaughter soldiers and police via the cowardly practice of 
>> hiding and detonating explosives wrapped in nails."
>>
>>                   Are you insinuating that Bill Ayers tried to kill 
>> people? I am no fan of Ayers. But I think you are off base saying he 
>> killed, or even attempted to kill people. If you think this, please 
>> provide us with the names of people Ayers attempted to kill, or who he 
>> killed.
>>
>>                   The people that McCain worked for between 1979 and 1992 
>> harmed more people than Ayers.
>>
>>                   Best Regards,
>>
>>                   Donovan
>>
>>                   --- On Tue, 9/16/08, g. crabtree 
>> <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>
>>                     From: g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>>                     Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bill Ayers & Barack Obama
>>                     To: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>, "vision2020" 
>> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>                     Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 7:24 PM
>>
>>
>> So what's your problem with the G-Man? The guy did his time in anything 
>> but
>> country club conditions until your hero, James Earl Carter, commuted his
>> sentence. He never ratted out his associates and he's managed to support
>> himself and his family as an ex-con. No small accomplishment. Oh yeah, he
>> has never attempted to slaughter soldiers and police via the cowardly
>> practice of hiding and detonating explosives wrapped in nails. All things
>> considered, I know that I would much rather associate with a man who 
>> served
>> his time and was released from prison than an unrepentant attempted 
>> murderer
>> whose only regret is that he couldn't cause more carnage and mayhem. Of
>> course that's just me.
>>
>> g
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
>> To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:32 PM
>> Subject: [Vision2020] Bill Ayers & Barack Obama
>>
>>
>> > They both knew each other. They were both appointed to co-chair an
>> > education panel by Mayor Daley, and the prior state Senator from
>> > Obama's seat introduced him at Bill Ayers' house. No large,
>> ongoing
>> > connection. But here's the thing:
>> >
>> > Why isn't John McCain's friendship with G. Gordon Liddy a campaign
>> > issue? Is there any defensible reason for treating Liddy like a
>> > rehabilitated member of the community, rather than as a threat to the
>> > Republic? If so, why?
>> >
>> > -- ACS
>> >
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>>
>>
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>
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