[Vision2020] [spam] Re: [spam] Re: Palin and library books

Fri Sep 12 12:29:41 PDT 2008

Jeff,

I'm no more interested in Palin's senior thesis than I am in the Obamas'.  I don't think any of them are relevant.

I do think how one governs is relevant.  I think if Palin disagreed with the position of the police chief she hired, she would have said so, so I think that's relevant.  I do think attempting to ban books in the public library is relevant.  After the abuses of power we've seen in the Justice Dept. under Bush, I am concerned about her treatment of subordinates who don't do what she wants.  And if someone has a problem with how Obama has wielded authority, I'd find that relevant too.  If I were appalled enough, it might make me change my vote, though it wouldn't steer me towards McCain.

Since I think the Iraq war is all about trying to control Iraq's oil and using that country as a permanent base for our troops, I find her hope that our presence there be part of God's plan naive at best, and appalling in someone who might be president.  

That's two for the day.

Sunil

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:14:24 -0700
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
From: jeffh at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [spam] Re: [Vision2020] [spam] Re:  Palin and library books
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com

Sunil, 

Thanks for response.  An American ideal is that one is presumed
innocent until "proven" guilty by a jury of peers.

Of course, one is free to say whatever they want (subject to the crying
"fire" in a crowded theatre dictum).

Investigations of the improper reimbursement issue are quite structured,
generally conducted by relatively independent parties - state auditor,
independent CPA, special commissions, attorney general, comptroller,
treasurer, General Accounting Office and the like.

Since the record of an investigation is likely to be reviewed by a higher
authority, it is relatively unlikely that the initial investigations
would be tainted, biased or intentionally misstated - especially with
issues that are receiving so much "air time". 

One item does seem relevant - why would digging up Obama's thesis be
"irrelevant" while Palin's early years be relevant?  Is
that a double standard?

I agree that our lists will have overlap; in fact, they may be remarkably
similar.  That said, our expectations for dealing with or resolving
the issues may be remarkably dissimilar.  But how would we know
unless we talked about it?

Again, thanks for response.

At 11:21 AM 9/12/2008, you wrote:

Jeff,

I see your point re. reimbursement.  I just don't agree with
it.  I don't think there's any obligation to remain silent while
awaiting the results of these investigations.  I would be quite
surprised if any of the investigations go forward without attempts by
McCain/Palin to either delay or derail or change the investigation
staff.  If they succeed then there may not be any reports before the
election.

I also don't necessarily believe that the reports will be the absolute
truth.

Now I do think that the press plays a game of 'Gotcha' to the detriment
of our political discourse, and they do this to a lot of
politicians.  Witness the attempts to dig up the Obamas' senior
theses.  I don't think that was particularly relevant to the
election.

I think that issues that should be focused on are ignored, as you seem to
as well.  I also think while our lists of relevant issues may have
some overlap, we would have different topics on our respective
lists.

Obviously anyone can simply delete any posts on subjects they find
irrelevant.

I'm not going to comment on Tom's posting habits; for myself I try to
limit myself to three posts a day, though I know I've posted more often
than that from time to time.

Sunil

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:03:02 -0700

To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com

From: jeffh at moscow.com

Subject: Re: [spam] Re: [Vision2020] Palin and library books

CC: vision2020 at moscow.com

No Sunil, you rather miss my point, but I do appreciate your
comments.

Hansen posts so frequently on this site that it should really be renamed
his blog.  He sends reams of links and articles to all the list
members. In effect, he has become a filter for the list.

Most of what he posts can be found in online news sites and he simply
picks and chooses that which he finds interesting.

If a list member has an issue, they can post a query to the list and all
responses are welcomed.  The folks on this list are savvy on web
searches and can usually find information to satisfy their
demands.

Those who find Hansen's posts useful and/or interesting would be better
served by a Hansen blog site - easily allowing a quick search reflecting
Hansen's biases.  

You are missing my point on Tom's posting links to articles on Palin's
per diem claim.  There is an official inquiry going on and the
"truth" or facts will be more clear as the investigation
continues.  Posting links to supposition isn't at all helpful in
getting to the core of the matter.  For the case in point, AK
officials have already stated that her requests are within the boundaries
for reimbursable expenses.  He did not reference that line of
articles.

Also, go back and follow the threads on the book banning issue - lots of
rhetoric and supposition.

It has been my understanding that the viz was intended to be a community
forum.  It would be nice to return to that venue.

At 05:20 PM 9/9/2008, you wrote:

It's always difficult to set standards for discourse on a list like
this.  Jeff doesn't think that Tom should post links to articles on
Palin's per diem claims.  many others might find the information
helpful or interesting. 

I think Jeff made incorrect statements in his recent post on 9/11,
but I wouldn't say he shouldn't have posted his thoughts.  I would
be interested in his defense of them, but despite my personal views it's
certainly not my place to say that they were so far below the bar they
shouldn't have been posted.  I think that claims that we were
attacked because our attackers hate freedom are nonsense, and serve only
to head off discussion of the real issues at hand, but people are free to
post such stuff.  I just think they should be prepared to defend
their statements once they've been offered.

Sunil

Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:07:40 -0700

To: sslund_2007 at verizon.net

From: jeffh at moscow.com

CC: vision2020 at moscow.com

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Palin and library books

Of course, you have overlooked the fact that it has been reported
that a constituent (or group of constituents) had asked her what the
procedure was for challenging the book inventory.  As a proper role
for an elected official, she researched the issue (with the librarian, as
I am to understand) and informed the constituent of the procedure and
protocol for challenging the book inventory.

What is a bit murky, the librarian - reportedly a democrat - chose to
use the incident in a political move.

Perhaps we will learn more about this.

>From a cynical perspective, I do hope that the pundits, the
democrats, the liberals, the far left and others continue to attack Gov
Sarah Palin on family and personal issues.  These petty attacks on
her character, her religion, her children go a long way to raising her
visibility with the voting public.  

Even the demo candidate Sen Obama has asked for the personal attacks
to stop. That hasn't seemed to stop the tenor and vitriol of the
attacks.  Obama doesn't seem to have much control over those
elements.

Are the issues not relevant?  Maybe we could talk about Biden's
3 sector plan for Iraq.  How does Palin feel about that? Perhaps we
could explore the VPs' positions on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. 
What about education - both candidates have a record of positions on
education.

Raise the bar, please.  A recent post (by Hansen) insinuating
that Palin was inappropriately using state funds for travel and overnight
stays, and using her home for overnight reimbursement.  This kind of
penmanship terror should stop - Hansen should know better - his tactics
are an insult to our locals .  You folks are all better than this -
and smart enough to ask penetrating and relevant questions.

There are numerous articles and newsreports, fully researched, that
would reveal the "real story" about Palin's expense
reimbursements.  Cut to the chase - contact Kim Garnero, Alaska
State Finance Director, whose responsibilities include expense
reimbursement for state employees.

Thanks.

t 04:16 PM 9/7/2008, you wrote:

Content-type: multipart/alternative;

boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0515_01C91105.069D71A0"
Content-language: en-us

While there’s no doubt that Palin discussed (a discussion she’s
subsequently labeled “rhetorical”) banning books with the City’s
librarian, the book list below canNOT be attributed to Palin.  Its
origins seems to be this:

http://www.adlerbooks.com/banned.html

The specific titles of books Palin was interested in banning is of no
interest to me; of great interest and concern to me is that banning books
was a topic in which Palin had any interest and tells me a great deal
about her.

Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people
to do nothing.
~ Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2008 through
life plus 70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or
reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum without the express written
permission of the author.*****

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [

mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of keely emerinemix
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:36 PM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Palin and library books

>From Jeff's cousin -- interesting information about Sarah Palin
and her attempts to get books banned from the Wasilla, Alaska, library
when she was mayor.

Flicka????!!!!!!  Webster's Ninth Collegiate
Dictionary?????!!!!

OK, I guess "Our Bodies, Ourselves" isn't a surprise . . .

Keely

http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/

From: RGPsme at aol.com
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 16:38:09 -0400
Subject: (no subject)
To: r.clearwater.arch at comcast.net; cleedesign at yahoo.com;
samscat99 at netscape.net; betterthanchocolate at hotmail.com;
kjajmix1 at email.msn.com; johnmetc at verizon.net; pnixon18 at hotmail.com;
rstockwell at applied-e-s.com; maryginger at yahoo.com

Let's spend a few moments browsing the list of books Mayor Sarah
Palin tried to get town librarian Mary Ellen Baker to ban in the lovely,
all-American town of Wasilla, Alaska.  When Baker refused to remove
the books from the shelves, Palin threatened to fire her.  The story
was reported in Time Magazine and the list comes from the librarian.net
website.

I'm sure you'll find your own personal favorites among the classics
Palin wanted to protect the good people of Wasilla from, but the ones
that jumped out at me were the four Stephen King novels (way to go
Stephen, John Steinbeck only got three titles on the list), that
notorious piece of communist pornography "My Friend
Flicka,"  the usual assortment of Harry Potter books, works by
Shakespeare, Walt Whitman, Kurt Vonnegut, Mark Twain (always fun to see
those two names together), Arthur Miller, and Aristophanes, as well as
"Our Bodies, Ourselves" (insert your own Bristol Palin joke
here), and the infamous one-two punch of depravity:  "To Kill a
Mockingbird" and "Little Red Riding Hood."  But the
cherry on the sundae, the topper, is Sarah Palin's passionate, religious
mission to clear the shelves of the Wasilia Public Library of that
ultimate evil tome:  "Webster's Ninth New Collegiate
Dictionary."  That's the one with " equality,"
"free speech" and "justice " in it.

Go over to your book case and take down one of the books you'll find
on the list (I know you've got a couple) and give it a read in honor of
the founding fathers.  Then tell me I'm not the only voter who
doesn't want this woman within thirty feet of the United States
Constitution. 

 Sarah Palin's Book Club

A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L’Engle
Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden
As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner
Blubber by Judy Blume
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
Canterbury Tales by Chaucer
Carrie by Stephen King
Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
Christine by Stephen King
Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Cujo by Stephen King
Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen
Daddy’s Roommate by Michael Willhoite
Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller
Decameron by Boccaccio
East of Eden by John Steinbeck
Fallen Angels by Walter Myers
Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland
Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes
Forever by Judy Blume
Grendel by John Champlin Gardner
Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter20and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling
Have to G o by Robert Munsch
Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman
How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell
Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
Impressions edited by Jack Booth
In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
It’s Okay if You Don’t Love Me by Norma Klein
James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl
Lady Chatterley’s Lover by D.H. Lawrence
Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm
Lord of the Flies by William Golding
Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein
Lysistrata by Aristophanes
More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher
Collier
My House by Nikki Giovanni
M y Friend Flicka by Mary O’Hara
Night Chills by Dean Koontz
Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer
One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn
One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest by Ken Kesey
One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Ordinary People by Judith Guest
Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women’s Health Collective
Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy
Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl
Scary Stories 3: More Tales to=2 0Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz
Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
Separate Peace by John Knowles
Silas Marner by George Eliot
Slaughte rhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.< br> Tarzan of the
Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain
The Bastard by John Jakes
The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier
The Color Purple by Alice Walker
The Devil’s Alternative by Frederick Forsyth
The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs
The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson
The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood
The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder
The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks
The Living Bible by William C. Bower
The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare
The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman
The Pigman by Paul Zindel
The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders
The Shining by Stephen King
The Witches by Roald Dahl
The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder
Then Again, Maybe I Won’t by Judy Blume
To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee
Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare
Webster’s Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary--Merriam-Webster Editorial
Staff
Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween
Symbols by Edna Barth

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 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.  

http://www.fsr.net                     

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