[Vision2020] Palin: VP for Vendetta

[No Weatherman]

Let me be clear. I don't care who you vote for and I do not want to
persuade anyone.

I am very interested in honest dialogue concerning these issues.

I would rather have the conversation on the forum so that everyone can
be provoked to think, but so far no one has jumped in with Andreas and
I.



On 10/14/08, Carl Westberg <idahovandal1 at live.com> wrote:
>
>  I need to know more, but at this point, certainly not enough to persuade me
> to vote for McCain.  It's not McCain I have the real problem with.  I have a
> very real problem with the concept of, given his age and infirmities, and
> actuarial tables, the prospect of a President Palin.   CW
>
> > Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:03:54 -1000
>
> > From: no.weatherman at gmail.com
> > To: idahovandal1 at live.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Palin: VP for Vendetta
> >
> > Do the activities of ACORN bother you?
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/14/08, Carl Westberg <idahovandal1 at live.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > To be honest, I'm not qualified to engage in political debate. I'm not
> > > that knowledgeable, and it would show quite quickly. I prefer humor, as
> weak
> > > as it may be. As I've said before, I (nor anyone I know) do not think
> Obama
> > > is "The One", the "Messiah" or any of that. Bill Richardson was my
> choice,
> > > but between Obama/Biden and McCain/Palin, I prefer the former. If McCain
> > > had chosen a different running mate, I may have leaned his way. CW
> > >
> > > > Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:54:57 -1000
> > > > From: no.weatherman at gmail.com
> > > > To: idahovandal1 at live.com
> > >
> > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Palin: VP for Vendetta
> > > >
> > > > Hi Carl,
> > > >
> > > > I don't have a problem with criticism of Gov. Palin as long as it's
> > > consistent.
> > > >
> > > > I believe that the msm and the general pubic should absolutely
> > > > scrutinize Palin's record AND her background, as they have done, but
> > > > they should scrutinize Obama-Biden with the same level of scrutiny, as
> > > > they have not done.
> > > >
> > > > Let's test my point: If Sarah Palin campaigned for a candidate who ran
> > > > on the platform of instituting Sharia law, what do you think the
> > > > people on 2020 would say?
> > > >
> > > > Frankly, this proposition is so far out there that she wouldn't have
> > > > made the VP list at all. But Obama did just that and he did less than
> > > > a year ago.
> > > >
> > > > We're talking Sharia law where they cut off hands for theft and they
> > > > hang gays in the town square. It's sick stuff. But it's a documented
> > > > fact that Obama stumped for Odinga and no one on the left or on this
> > > > list cares one bit. Doesn't this strike you as inconsistent? Does it
> > > > even bother you that this so-called "liberal" candidate would do this?
> > > >
> > > > Or take the education issue. Obama blew 150 million dollars on
> > > > education without achieving anything. If Palin had done this, what
> > > > would this education-minded community have done?
> > > >
> > > > It's clear to me that people like Mix and Lund are more interested in
> > > > ripping Palin apart than defending Barack Obama. You may disagree but
> > > > that's how I see it. I see envy.
> > > >
> > > > They have not engaged any of the facts regarding Obama and they have
> > > > advanced scurrilous falsehoods about Palin.
> > > >
> > > > Is Palin perfect? No. But I cannot impute to her all these evildoings
> > > > that Lund insists on posting from left wing rags, so when I see it I
> > > > call her on her Palin Envy, which is a very small thing when you
> > > > consider some of the names she's called me.
> > > >
> > > > I am not anything or anyone that the Viz thinks I am. I am not a
> > > > Republican and I am not a churchgoer. But I do take the future of our
> > > > republic seriously and I wish there was some way I could prove my
> > > > sincerity to you, but I cannot.
> > > >
> > > > One last thing.
> > > >
> > > > This is very much a political debate no different than the kinds of
> > > > debates the founding fathers participated in.
> > > >
> > > > A simple acknowledgment of this fact from someone like you could go a
> > > > long way to diffuse the hostilities.
> > > >
> > > > I have posted a boatload of serious things that should concern all
> > > > Americans and only three people have tried to engage me — Andreas,
> > > > Paul, and Chas.
> > > >
> > > > Chas went off the tracks a few days ago, but the other two are
> > > > honestly engaging my points. Everyone else is calling me names.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 10/14/08, Carl Westberg <idahovandal1 at live.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > OFF-LIST: So Palin can do no wrong? She's scary. Utterly
> unqualified. To
> > > > > a lot of people, not just a few on this list-serve. It's no "Palin
> > > envy",
> > > > > it merely echoes what conservatives like David Brooks, Kathleen
> Parker,
> > > > > William Buckley's son (who is out at the National Review after
> receiving
> > > > > viscious responses from conservative Republicans after he endorsed
> > > Obama)
> > > > > and others have said. Not just us liberals. CW
> > > > >
> > > > > > Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:05:26 -1000
> > > > > > From: no.weatherman at gmail.com
> > > > > > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Palin: VP for Vendetta
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PE for Palin Envy
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 10/14/08, Saundra Lund <sslund_2007 at verizon.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > VP for vendetta
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Troopergate report suggests how Sarah Palin would govern the
> US:
> > > by
> > > > > > > abusing her power to settle personal grudges
> > > > > > > Michelle Goldberg guardian.co.uk
> > > > > > > Tuesday October 14 2008 13.00 BST
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When I was in Alaska last month, several people told me they
> were
> > > afraid
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > speak about Sarah Palin on the record, lest they invite
> retaliation
> > > from
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > governor's office or, God forbid, from the next vice-president.
> At
> > > the
> > > > > time,
> > > > > > > I didn't take such worries too seriously. As abominable a
> candidate
> > > as
> > > > > Palin
> > > > > > > is, it was hard for me to imagine vice-presidential staffers
> trying
> > > ruin
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > lives of private Wasilla citizens just because they had
> displeased
> > > her.
> > > > > But
> > > > > > > reading the official report of the investigation into the Palin
> > > > > > > abuse-of-power scandal known as Troopergate, it seems that
> perhaps
> > > her
> > > > > > > critics were being more prudent than paranoid.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As scandals go, Troopergate is absurdly picayune. According to
> the
> > > > > report,
> > > > > > > released Friday by the bipartisan legislative council that
> > > authorised
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > investigation, Palin and her husband tried to use their
> political
> > > power
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > have her sister's ex-husband, state trooper Michael Wooten,
> fired
> > > from
> > > > > his
> > > > > > > job and investigated for workers compensation fraud. They also
> > > pressed
> > > > > > > authorities to prosecute him for a moose shooting that was
> unlawful
> > > > > because
> > > > > > > of a technicality (the permit had been issued to his then-wife,
> who
> > > was
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > him at the time, rather than to Wooten, who pulled the trigger).
> The
> > > > > > > governor then fired Walt Monegan, the public safety
> commissioner,
> > > > > because he
> > > > > > > refused to get rid of Wooten, something he could not legally
> have
> > > done.
> > > > > This
> > > > > > > stuff is so ridiculously small it seems silly to even be writing
> > > about
> > > > > it,
> > > > > > > especially at time of multiplying global emergencies.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yet given that there is still a chance - albeit a diminishing
> one -
> > > that
> > > > > > > Palin could soon be in a position of national political power,
> it's
> > > > > worth
> > > > > > > looking at how she has exercised power in the past. As a window
> into
> > > how
> > > > > > > Palin might rule, Troopergate's very pettiness is what makes it
> so
> > > > > > > troubling. We're used to politicians who do favours for campaign
> > > > > > > contributors, who are too cozy with lobbyists and who resort to
> > > > > underhanded
> > > > > > > tactics against political foes. What we are not used to are
> > > politicians
> > > > > who
> > > > > > > use their offices to intervene in family quarrels and punish
> their
> > > > > > > relatives' personal enemies. For the last eight years, we've
> > > suffered
> > > > > under
> > > > > > > an administration that sees no difference between politics and
> > > > > governing.
> > > > > > > Palin is something arguably worse, a person who sees no
> difference
> > > > > between
> > > > > > > her private life and her public duties. Even Dick Cheney, after
> all,
> > > > > hasn't
> > > > > > > used his office to torment disfavoured former in-laws.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Though Palin claims the report has exonerated her, that's an
> > > outright
> > > > > lie.
> > > > > > > It is true that it concluded that she was within her rights to
> fire
> > > > > Monegan,
> > > > > > > since the governor is allowed to replace department heads
> without
> > > cause.
> > > > > But
> > > > > > > it also found that Palin "abused her power" by violating the
> Alaska
> > > > > > > Executive Branch Ethics Act, which holds that any "effort to
> benefit
> > > a
> > > > > > > personal or financial interest through official action" is a
> > > violation
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the public trust.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > More interesting than the report's conclusion, though, are its
> > > pitiful
> > > > > > > little details. There are endless haranguing phone calls to
> people
> > > > > > > throughout the bureaucracy demanding action against Wooten, even
> > > after
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > Palins are warned that their actions could get them in legal
> > > trouble.
> > > > > There
> > > > > > > are scenes of Todd Palin, who apparently spent a great deal of
> time
> > > > > working
> > > > > > > in no official capacity out of his wife's office, presenting
> Monegan
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > dirt on Wooten unearthed by a private investigator. We see Todd
> > > trying
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > bust his ex-brother-in- law for dropping his kids off at school
> and
> > > then
> > > > > at
> > > > > > > church in a patrol car (both times, it turns out Wooten had
> > > permission
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > use the vehicle for personal business). We learn that the judge
> > > > > presiding
> > > > > > > over Wooten's divorce from Palin's sister weighed the Palin
> family's
> > > > > > > vendetta against him in splitting up their assets, ruling that
> > > Wooten is
> > > > > > > likely to earn less in the future because his ex-wife's family
> "have
> > > > > decided
> > > > > > > to take off with the guy's livelihood".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is not, of course, the only case in which Palin has behaved
> > > like
> > > > > Gossip
> > > > > > > Girl's Blair Waldorf, mobilising her minions against those
> who've
> > > fallen
> > > > > > > from her good graces. One of the people enlisted against Wooten
> was
> > > > > Palin's
> > > > > > > legislative director John Bitney, a friend of hers since junior
> high
> > > > > school.
> > > > > > > Bitney later angered Palin by having an affair with Debbie
> Richter,
> > > who
> > > > > at
> > > > > > > the time was separated from Todd Palin's best friend. He was
> > > summarily
> > > > > > > fired. (Debbie Richter has since become Debbie Bitney).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All this is, of course, pretty trivial stuff. But how terrifying
> to
> > > > > think of
> > > > > > > a vice-president - or a president - wielding the power of her
> office
> > > to
> > > > > > > settle such personal grudges. The Bush administration has
> famously
> > > been
> > > > > > > described as the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. Palin
> promises
> > > > > > > something tawdrier still. Again, bad prime-time soap operas
> offer
> > > the
> > > > > best
> > > > > > > analogy. Could America survive the rule of the Mayberry
> Carringtons?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2008/oct/14/sarah-palin-t
> > > > > > > roopergate-election
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > =======================================================
> > > > > > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > > > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > > > > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > > > > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > > > > >
> > > =======================================================
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > =======================================================
> > > > > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > > > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > > > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > > > >
> > > =======================================================
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