[Vision2020] An Obama Dilemma

joekc at roadrunner.com joekc at roadrunner.com
Sat Oct 4 10:18:06 PDT 2008


I'm sorry but I'm having a hard time understanding this as a response to my last question, so I'll
be more direct.

Do you want to have lunch today or not? I'll treat. If you can't make it, I understand. You respect
me so why not sit down with me for lunch and we can talk this all out. If you convince me that 
you are not either a critic of Christ Church or affiliated with Christ Church, I'll issue an apology.

I have a busy schedule today. I need to know asap. If you can't make it, just let me know.

--
Joe Campbell

---- No Weatherman <no.weatherman at gmail.com> wrote: 
> "This is really a silly game. Below is just another bad argument. Some
> of your opinions are facts and some not and it is doubtful that you
> are the best judge about which is which."
> 
> I noted your fallacies and you call it "silly" and "another bad
> argument." I wonder what the technical name for that one is.
> 
> "Also, why should I answer your questions if you don't answer mine?
> That's not fair."
> 
> I caught you equivocating, or having it both ways, with the word
> "fact" and when I called you on it, you ignored my question and
> proceeded to ask me a string of loaded questions. If this is not true,
> please show me where I'm wrong. Otherwise, don't complain about "fair"
> to me.
> 
> "And why are you so upset about this? If you are not either a critic
> of Christ Church or affiliated with Christ Church, why would it bother
> you that someone thought that you were?"
> 
> I am not the least bit upset, I am not bothered at all, and you cannot
> produce any evidence to the contrary. However, I can produce several
> posts written by you, Ms. Mix, Ms. Lund, and Mr. Hanson where you four
> have been extremely upset and bothered. You are projecting your traits
> on me.
> 
> "I must say if you are trying to prove that you're not, you are doing
> a very bad job. Not nearly as bad as your case against Obama but still
> pretty bad. And it is silly indeed since you could prove your point
> easily by using your real name, or meeting me for lunch later today.
> I'll treat! Of course, if you can't since you're, say, out of the
> country, that would explain a lot!"
> 
> I am in the country and I sincerely appreciate the offer but I'll take
> a rain check. Now, what fallacy, if any, are you committing when you
> infer a false conclusion from my answer?
> 
> "Anyway, if you won't use your name or meet me for lunch, I'll have to
> go back to trying to ignore you. Not that I'm very good at it but I'll
> try to be better!"
> 
> You're very good at misquoting me and misrepresenting me, and you're
> even better at evading responsibility for your dishonest statements.
> But I'm struggling with all those posts that you wrote insisting that
> you never read a word I wrote, yet, now, suddenly and miraculously,
> you have the uncanny ability as a trained logician to describe the
> previously and until-now ignored posts as full of "fallacy after
> fallacy."
> 
> Rather than ignoring me, I would appreciate it if you actually tried
> to engage me — or better yet, engage my one single point that has thus
> far gone unnoticed by the handful of extremely vocal Obama supporters
> on this list.
> 
> Barrack Hussein Obama is 47 years old but 20 of his years are a
> complete mystery to America. In the modern history of the US the press
> has never given any candidate such a pass as they have given Obama,
> and yet none of the Obama supporters on this list appear the least bit
> bothered by these facts.
> 
> Since I originally engaged you, I have had one question in mind: How
> do you account for this, Dr. Campbell?
> 
> 
> On 10/4/08, joekc at roadrunner.com <joekc at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> > This is really a silly game. Below is just another bad argument. Some of your opinions are facts
> >  and some not and it is doubtful that you are the best judge about which is which.
> >
> >  Also, why should I answer your questions if you don't answer mine? That's not fair.
> >
> >  And why are you so upset about this? If you are not either a critic of Christ Church or
> >  affiliated with Christ Church, why would it bother you that someone thought that you were?
> >
> >  I must say if you are trying to prove that you're not, you are doing a very bad job. Not nearly as
> >  bad as your case against Obama but still pretty bad. And it is silly indeed since you could prove
> >  your point easily by using your real name, or meeting me for lunch later today. I'll treat!
> >  Of course, if you can't since you're, say, out of the country, that would explain a lot!
> >
> >  Anyway, if you won't use your name or meet me for lunch, I'll have to go back to trying to ignore
> >  you. Not that I'm very good at it but I'll try to be better!
> >
> >
> >  --
> >  Joe Campbell
> >
> >  ---- No Weatherman <no.weatherman at gmail.com> wrote:
> >  > I read your words very carefully, because you concluded by jumping
> >  > from "as far as I can tell" to "isn't this FACT telling?"
> >  >
> >  > As far as I can tell you concluded by calling it a "fact." Is my
> >  > reasoned opinion wrong, good Doctor?
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > On 10/4/08, joekc at roadrunner.com <joekc at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> >  > > I said as far as I can tell, it is a reflection of my own reasoned opinion. And I said anonymous
> >  > >  posters are either supporters or critics. Please read my words more carefully.
> >  > >
> >  > >  And that conclusion follows with a good deal more certainty than any of your conclusions about
> >  > >  Obama, which are all -- everyone of them -- based on fallacies.
> >  > >
> >  > >  What reason is there for your curious double-standard, that I need to prove my claims yet you can
> >  > >  make any reckless statement you want without a hint of real support?
> >  > >
> >  > >  And why not deny the allegation if you thought I made it and it is false. You are curious indeed!
> >  > >
> >  > >  And as others have asked time and time again, what possible reason is there for you to post
> >  > >  anonymously if you are not trying to hide some affiliation? Use your real name and I'll be done.
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >  --
> >  > >  Joe Campbell
> >  > >
> >  > >  ---- No Weatherman <no.weatherman at gmail.com> wrote:
> >  > >
> >  > > > AHA!
> >  > >  >
> >  > >  > What evidence can Dr. Campbell produce to show that I am either a folk
> >  > >  > of Christ Church or a critic of Christ Church?
> >  > >  >
> >  > >  > Some of you would do well to answer this question and do some self-examination.
> >  > >  >
> >  > >  >
> >  > >  >
> >  > >  > On 10/4/08, joekc at roadrunner.com <joekc at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> >  > >  > > What evidence is there that the five noted by Gary below are "left wing"? In fact, what they all
> >  > >  > >  have in common is that they were critics of Christ Church. That is it.
> >  > >  > >
> >  > >  > >  So the anonymous posts, as far as I can tell, are either from folks at Christ Church or from
> >  > >  > >  critics of Christ Church. Does anyone have a counterexample to this and isn't this fact telling?
> >  > >  > >
> >  > >  > >
> >  > >  > >  --
> >  > >  > >  Joe Campbell
> >  > >  > >
> >  > >  > >  ---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> >  > >  > >
> >  > >  > > > I believe that Rodger means that the names were brought up (listed) by
> >  > >  > >  > myself and someone else as examples of anonymous posters. Not that those
> >  > >  > >  > vision members were posting currently.
> >  > >  > >  >
> >  > >  > >  > g
> >  > >  > >  > ----- Original Message -----
> >  > >  > >  > From: "Craine Kit" <kcraine at verizon.net>
> >  > >  > >  > To: "Chasuk" <chasuk at gmail.com>
> >  > >  > >  > Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >  > >  > >  > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 8:24 PM
> >  > >  > >  > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An Obama Dilemma
> >  > >  > >  >
> >  > >  > >  >
> >  > >  > >  > >I didn't get any postings by either "heridotus" or "Ford yesterday.
> >  > >  > >  > > I  haven't seen anything from either in quite some while. Am I
> >  > >  > >  > > missing something?
> >  > >  > >  > >
> >  > >  > >  > > Kit Craine
> >  > >  > >  > >
> >  > >  > >  > >
> >  > >  > >  > >
> >  > >  > >  > >
> >  > >  > >  > >
> >  > >  > >  > > On Oct 3, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Chasuk wrote:
> >  > >  > >  > >
> >  > >  > >  > >> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 12:31, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> >  > >  > >  > >>
> >  > >  > >  > >>> There  were about 5 listed in posts yesterday by Gary  and someone
> >  > >  > >  > >>> else. Two of them were Heridotus and Ford.
> >  > >  > >  > >>
> >  > >  > >  > >> Ah.  I would consider J.Ford more a harmless crank than a real
> >  > >  > >  > >> "left-winger."  The others I am unfamiliar with.
> >  > >  > >  > >>
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> >  > >  > >  >
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> >
> >
> 
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