[Vision2020] Don't you get it? EVERYONE'S rights are in peril!

Sat Nov 8 09:41:53 PST 2008

This is a good example of how subjects get highjacked on this forum.  My original post was about BIGOTRY.  It was not about keeping score in the game of politics and  it had nothing to do with taxes.  It was about HATE. . . pure and simple.  

The only well thought out responses I have received so far have been *OFFLINE*. . . which is fine.  At least some of you DO GET IT.

Actually. . . it's not fine. . . it's troubling and it's sad.  And I would hate to think it's because people are AFRAID.

So gimme back my subject, go get your own and cry someplace else.  

Ellen A. Roskovich

From: scooterd408 at hotmail.comTo: vpschwaller at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.comDate: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 23:42:19 -0700Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Don't you get it? EVERYONE'S rights are in peril!

How badly can you possibly get beaten up in your tax filing next April?  First, if you think Obama taking office in 2009 can retroactively jack up the tax rate for 2008, you're giving him way, Way, WAY more credit of his power reach then I think is even possible in American government.  And second, you must be making a crap load of money to begin with if you're worried about a significant tax hike on income - and that is actually a pretty nice 'problem' to have so I don't exactly have a whole lot of sympathy for you if sympathy is what you're looking for by claiming that you're going to get badly beaten up paying taxes next year.  Alright...I'll give cut you some slack and say Boo-Hoo!  By the way, have you seen the latest unemployment numbers?  They're HUGE!!!  Me personally, I'd be happy paying significantly more taxes under Obama because it would translate to me making more of an income under Obama than under Bush.If you're so tax averse, then avoid generating taxable income.  It's not that difficult.  I have 2 friends that pay no taxes.  One doesn't have a social security number, lives on a boat, and makes about $15k per year under the table doing odd jobs because he would rather not make triple that amount working for a company if it means paying taxes to our evil government.  The second one (OK maybe friend is a stretch here....he is a bitter crusty guy who hates my guts because I joke around too much for him) rents a barn to live in, drives around a beat up 1972 Firebird, and at one point had an ungodly net worth due to the value of his stock holdings since he was employee #7 of a small high tech firm turned big that was ultimately acquired (and significantly overpaid for) by a big company.  So what was the problem?  Selling any of that stock would mean writing that much too painful to write check to the hated IRS and to the State.  Better to ride that stock all the way from its high of $88 per share down to 88 cents per share, completely avoid paying taxes because for some odd reason that's of paramount importance, and then claim 'I was right all along!!!' when 10 years prior you stated that 'this crappy company ain't going to amount to anything'.Also, you're concerned about a potentially unfair mistrust or suspicion if Obama's campaign promises are unfulfilled?  I'm sure you're joking about this.-Scott

Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 15:47:30 -0800From: vpschwaller at gmail.comTo: vision2020 at moscow.comSubject: Re: [Vision2020] Don't you get it? EVERYONE'S rights are in peril!It seems more like you're saying that Bush has no culpability and the Dems are fully to blame which is absurd.No no Scott, I'm not saying that at all.  In fact I think it is exactly the opposite which is why I'm a bit confused.  The Dems seem to have done all the can, or at least tried to do what they set out to do when Pelosi took over, but have been "hamstrung" by the current administration.  If this is indeed the case, why not simply lay the blame fully on Bush and the rest of his administration?  Certainly the Bush administration has taken a good share of well-deserved blows, but when the Congressional approval rating has been consistently 10 to 15 points lower than Bush's, it makes me wonder what's up.Are you saying the American public is simply fickle and the blame JUST gets passed around to everyone??  If that is the simple yet accurate explanation, so be it, but I'm just not buying it yet!Yes I agree with you it is not going to be a rosy situation for Obama and his administration.  I'm not sure people can appreciate how slow things may actually move, and I'm afraid this is going to generate a perhaps unfair mistrust or suspicion about campaign promises and delivery.  But I have to admit I for one will be looking at next year's tax filings to see how badly I get beat up!Thanks for your comments!GSOn Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:> Why would you find it strange Glenn?  Approval / dissapproval seems to me to> be based on the economy.  If the economic engine is humming and anyone who> wants a job can find gainful employment, Congress and the President both get> a thumbs up.  Whether or not Obama and Congress can make forward progress on> any agenda is really up to them and how much they can realistically take on> while being hamstrung with the cost of two wars as well as the staggering> cost of the so-called economic rescue package.  I thought Clinton's first 2> years in office with a Democratic Congress was an excruciatingly poor> combination, but that last 6 with a Republican Congress were spectacular> (admittedly from purely selfish viewpoint).>> If you want to say that the current mess can be blamed on Bush and> Congressional Dems, I'm in total agreement.  I'm not sure you're saying> that, though.  It seems more like you're saying that Bush has no culpability> and the Dems are fully to blame which is absurd.  Ronald Reagan worked> miracles - in my opinion - with a Democratic Congress.  He pushed through> sweeping tax reductions in his 6th year by going up in front of Congress and> saying 'win one for the Gipper!'.  So it can be done...just not from a guy> like George W. Bush.  He sucked with a GOP Congress and he sucked worse with> a Pelosi / Reid Congress.  He just plain sucked as a President.  Good> riddance come January.  It's been a painful 8 years.  At least the Carter> years were half of that time although since I was a lot younger, it seemed> to be about the same duration to me.>> -Scott>>> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:49:45 -0800>> From: vpschwaller at gmail.com>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Don't you get it? EVERYONE'S rights are in>> peril!>>>> Well yes, I think anyone can see that the Bush administration was not>> particularly "friendly" towards legislation put forth by the>> Democrats, but I find it odd that the American public would hold this>> lack of action against the Democrats (of whos legislation I assume>> they would approve), and NOT the governing body who is putting the>> brakes on everything? It's not as if the Dems threw up their hands in>> resignation and said "OK - you've got us. We'll give up and go home.">> THAT would justify poor approval ratings.>>>> In other words, why be so bitterly antagonistic against such an august>> group and hold the Democratic congress to blame for lack of positive>> action by the current administration?? I just don't think Andreas' or>> Sunil's explanation is completely correct or satisfactory.>>>> So there is more to the story here, and I would find it very strange>> if simply bringing in Democratic administration suddenly shifts>> congressional approval from 15% to 75%.>>>> More thoughts?>>>> GS>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Sunil Ramalingam>> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:>> > What the Glenns aren't mentioning here is that the primary difference is>> > that Obama isn't going to be as likely to veto legislation produced by>> > the>> > Dems as Bush was.>> >>> > Sunil>> >>> >> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:20:10 -0800>> >> From: vpschwaller at gmail.com>> >> To: vision2020 at moscow.com>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Don't you get it? EVERYONE'S rights are in>> >> peril!>> >>>> >> Hmmm - seems to me this was a common thread NW had been hammering home>> >> for awhile: Everyone's Rights Will Be (and are now) at Risk. But not>> >> to belabor that point.>> >>>> >> My question is, given that the current approval rating for a>> >> DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY (and even a greater majority now) congress is>> >> abysmal, how is simply electing a democratic president going to change>> >> the public perception of congress? And why is their approval rating>> >> at it's lowest point in history to begin with?? I mean, YOU guys put>> >> THOSE guys in there - and you're not happy about what they have done?>> >>>> >> I am indeed confused.>> >>>> >> GS>> >>>> >> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 6:28 AM, Ellen Roskovich <gussie443 at hotmail.com>>> >> wrote:>> >> > The long awaited for election is finally over. We breathe a sigh of>> >> > relief>> >> > and look forward to the promise of change and hope for the future.>> >> >>> >> > However, there's also a dark side to this past election. It is so>> >> > disturbing that one of our states would have an initiative on the>> >> > ballot>> >> > to>> >> > change their state constitution, to allow for discrimination against>> >> > one>> >> > specific group of citizens. And then it passed. Bigotry is now law.>> >> >>> >> > We need to keep an eye on our neighbor states, because what affects>> >> > them>> >> > today , could affect us tomorrow. We must be ever vigilant of>> >> > distant outside forces that would try to manipulate events close to>> >> > our>> >> > home. We must realize that hate was well funded. . . money was poured>> >> > into>> >> > California by groups that preach love. "Love your neighbor". . . .>> >> > but>> >> > make>> >> > sure it's only a certain kind of love that we approve of.>> >> >>> >> > Ellen A. Roskovich>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> > ________________________________>> >> > Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to>> >> > suspicious>> >> > email. Sign up today.>> >> > =======================================================>> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,>> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.>> >> > http://www.fsr.net>> >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>> >> > =======================================================>> >> >>> >>>> >> =======================================================>> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,>> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.>> >> http://www.fsr.net>> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>> >> =======================================================>> >>> > =======================================================>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.>> > http://www.fsr.net>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>> > =======================================================>> >>>>> =======================================================>> List services made available by First Step Internet,>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.>> http://www.fsr.net>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>> =======================================================>> ________________________________> Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster. 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