[Vision2020] Say What? Everyone Deserves Death

[lfalen]

Ted
I  also have a problem with the concept of original sin.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: "Ted Moffett" starbliss at gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 01:40:34 -0700
To: "Ralph Nielsen" nielsen at uidaho.edu
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What? Everyone Deserves Death

> Ralph et. al.
> 
> Thanks for your Biblical explorations.
> 
> However, I wasn't commenting on the issue of "life after death," whatever
> that may mean.  I did not make what I meant very clear.
> I'll elaborate:
> 
> The idea that "Everyone deserves death," given some sort of general morally
> flawed condition of humanity, is extremist and ridiculous.  There are many
> wonderful people in the world who have never done anything that would
> justify them deserving death.  Occasionally they might deserve being beaten
> with a wet noodle.
> 
> I could explore the idea of "original sin" (Ralph, perhaps you could explore
> the Biblical origins of the idea of "original sin," that all human beings
> are tainted with, as some claim?) as it is viewed by some religions; but it
> is clear from what I write that I do not accept this concept.
> 
> Again, I will state, this kind of thinking (Everyone deserves death) is
> characteristic of the extremist dangerous beliefs of cults, that
> use tactics to control people by making them feel inherently and inescapably
> "bad," then offer them only one option to redeem their flawed moral fate...
> Our way or damnation!
> 
> It is easy for this extremist moral calculus to be used to justify cruelty
> against those who some religions views as "sinners," such as punishing
> "wilful women," homosexuals, or children who need their sinful nature
> chastened for behaviors that are only a natural part of growing up, and are
> not indicative of "evil."  The fact that this kind of thinking may be
> believed in by many following a "mainstream religion" makes it all the more
> disturbing.
> 
> Ted Moffett
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com> wrote:
> >    Donovan Arnold, or whoever, wrote:
> >
> >  http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2008-May/053886.html
> >
> >  I think everyone deserves death Joe. As everyone is a sinner.  But only
> > through the grace of God and the sacrifice of Jesus do we live.
> > --------------
> >  This statement represents the kind of thinking that makes religious cults
> > dangerous, no matter what religion is supporting this extremism.
> >  --------------
> > RALPH NIELSEN
> > You have a good point there, Ted. If people knew that there is no life
> > after death, only life before death, they would live their lives more
> > realistically.
> >
> > And if the religionists would read the Bible more carefully, they would
> > know that there is no life after death. The Hebrew Bible (O.T. in Xian
> > propaganda) had it right. An ancient writer explained it this way. He had
> > the God Yahweh (the LORD) tell the first man, "By the sweat of your face you
> > shall eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were
> > taken; you are dust, and to dust you shall return" (Genesis 3:19).
> >
> > This straightforward statement about human mortality was taken out of
> > context by Xians and twisted into a sorry tale about human depravity in the
> > theological theory of Original Sin. They perverted the ancient Adam and Eve
> > story into a sick yarn about hereditary punishment for all of their
> > descendants for all time.
> >
> > Death is a fact of life for all beings. Neither humans nor any other
> > animals are destined to live forever. The ancient Hebrews knew this too.
> >
> > "Then the LORD God said, "See the man has become like one of us, knowing
> > good and evil; and now, he might reach out his hand and take also from the
> > tree of life, and eat, and live forever"---therefore the LORD God sent him
> > forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken.
> > He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he paced the
> > cherubim, and a sword flaming and turning to guard the way to the tree of
> > life  (Genesis 3:22-24).
> >
> > The ancient Hebrew writer is simply explaining why we don't live forever.
> > We are not being punished for anybody's sin; we most certainly do not
> > "deserve death," as Xian sickos love to proclaim. We are products of the
> > planet earth; we are made of dust and to dust we shall return.
> >
> > So be it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
>