[Vision2020] Again [was Interfaith Panel Thurs. May 15

Wed May 14 17:59:07 PDT 2008

More contractions. I'm waiting for the explanation.

--
Joe Campbell

---- Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote: 

=============
Mo,

  Thanks for the thoughtful and insightful response. 

  My point with European nations was that they don't have as many problems with race, sexual orientation, religion, gender, disability, etc. that we do. And that is because their tactics are not to be hostile toward people they are trying to convert and educate. 

  I think taking the negative hostile attitude that so many people wish to take toward all that is White, Male, or Christian will only get you so far before their is backlash.

  I don't think White Men, or anyone for that matter, in our society need to feel guilty about anything that someone of their race or gender did in the past, unless they participated or approve of it. People should be judged based on who they are. 

  Your example of selecting professors I think shows a flaw in the way that people think and hire. I don't believe that someone should be hired because they have a disability. If they have experience with a disability, which gives them and edge in the position, that is relevant. But the simple fact that someone is or is not disabled should not be a determining factor in the job selection, neither should race, gender, religion, family status, sexual orientation, the number of toes they have, or even if they have a tail. It should be simply based on their ability to do the job best. 

  I do think that our hiring process is discriminatory, precisely because it looks for qualities that are predominate in white men and that should be fixed. Other cultures and view points should be considered equally as valuable. I think if a selection board keeps hiring only white, straight, christian, men , over and over, and never hires a person that is otherwise, then I would select a different hiring board, because clearly that one is flawed in selecting candidates in a fair and balanced way.

  I also think that many positions on the top level require a great deal of experience. Because few women and minorities were given the opportunity to get that experience years ago, there are fewer of them to select from.  

  As more and more minorities are given a chance to get experience and education, they will get jobs. Hopefully, we will have a man, Barack Obama, as President, and I don't think he fits the category of White Male. 

  Best Regards,

  Donovan

Mo Hendrickson <hend5953 at vandals.uidaho.edu> wrote:
      .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }    

Donovan-

I have a few responses to your email.    

You wrote:  "I agree that discrimination still exists. But I think the reason why the US, unlike other western nations, has not moved past these hang ups is precisely because of the tactics used to try and end it." 

Which Western Nations are you using as an example? I cannot think of a single western nation that has moved past discrimination to the point of being a beacon of light and hope for the rest of the world to ascribe to.  While many western nations have or had a woman in the highest offices in the land that does not mean that they are free from the issues of discrimination.  I recently had the opportunity to hear a gentleman from the French Embassy speak about the problems they are having in France.  It is against the law to give aid to people on the basis of race, gender, or national origin, but discrimination is still a huge issue for their country.  France has not "moved past these hang ups" any more than we have.  They are trying to establish programs but these programs can only go so far in changing the attitudes and opinions of the French people.  

You wrote "When we tell people they are wrong or should feel guilty because they are White, heterosexual, christian, non-disabled, male, etc, you quickly turn off the majority of people you are trying to convert."   

I agree with you to a point.  Whenever you tell anyone they are wrong or should feel guilty about who they are you quickly turn people off to your point of view.  (I am using a general you here, I am not directing that comment directly at you Donovan.)  At the same time for the majority of our countries existence White, Christian, Males have been telling people of color, women, people with disabilities, people from other religions and so on that they are wrong and should feel inferior for not being born a privileged white male.  White men today have inherited a privilege from their predecessors, if pointing out that they have this inheritance and they feel a little guilty about it then maybe that is a good thing and they can be part of the solution instead of continuing to be a part of the problem.  

I also don't think this should be an issue of "conversion" to a specific way of thinking.  Human rights for ALL people should not be an issue that people need to be converted to.  Everyone is a part of diversity including the straight white christian male.  

You wrote "If we just hire, fire, include people based on merit, we would end discrimination quickly." 

Again I agree with you to a point.  I agree that people should be hired on the basis of merit, but with one addition to that.  Let me give you an example, currently at the University of Idaho we have very few professors with an acknowledged disability. (There maybe others who have not disclosed their disability)  Lets say that a search has been conducted for "X" department who is in need of a new professor.  Within this department there are several students with acknowledged disabilities.  The top two candidates are equally qualified and would be well suited for the department. The first is a white male and the other is an individual with an acknowledged disability.  Both being equal which one do you think should be hired?  

It would be fine to hire and fire people based on merit if our system was set up to give all people a fair chance to succeed.  Unfortunately discrimination is woven into every fiber of our society.  We should be hiring the most qualified person for a position, I will not deny that, but at the same time we cannot rely on one system to change the whole.  Simply hiring the most qualified person will not end discrimination in all of the areas that it has taken hold.  This is not going to be a simple transition and everyone has to be on board and we have to know that it is going to hurt and it is going to be uncomfortable but in the end, if we ever get there, we will be a better nation for it.  (OK yes I am an idealist, but I am also a realist, I don't think it is going to happen anytime in the near future.)

Sorry this is so long, but I love this stuff everyday.

-Mo

Best Regards,

  Donovan

Mo Hendrickson <hend5953 at vandals.uidaho.edu> wrote:
      .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P  {padding:0px;}  .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage  {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}    It shouldn't matter, but unfortunately in our society, racism, sexism, classism, religious choice, sexual orientation, gender preference, disability, on and on and on, are still factors in discrimination.  We do not live in a color blind/gender blind etc society and until we do we need to make sure that people from under represented groups are at the table and part of the conversation, even if we may not agree with what they are saying.  It is important that we realize the inherent worth in all people for what they have to contribute to the betterment of our nation and world.  

I believe that Sue's original point was that this is a community event and at her first glance she did not see a woman on the panel.  An event that is trying to reach beyond faith lines should have a diverse panel.  I am very glad to see that it does, and I would imagine that there is plenty of diversity on the panel beyond the gender and race of those that are represented.  We all should be trying to make spaces for diversity to enter into the conversation so that one day we won't need to rely on those categories.  

-Mo

---------------------------------
  Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 15:26:46 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
To: suehovey at moscow.com; mhamilto at vetmed.wsu.edu; kjajmix1 at msn.com; london at moscow.com; vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Interfaith Panel Thurs. May 15

  Why are some people so obsessed with a person's gender, race, religion, and sexual orientation? Does it matter?

  Best Regards,

  Donovan

Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
      .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P  {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;}  .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage  {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}      Now I really stand corrected.  Thanks so much.  

  Sue 
    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Hamilton, Mary Jo 
  To: Sue Hovey ; keely emerinemix ; Bill London ; vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:08 AM
  Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Interfaith Panel Thurs. May 15

  Chris Vaughn, representing the Bahai community, is also a woman.

  Mary Jo

  -----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Sue Hovey
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:08 AM
To: keely emerinemix; Bill London; vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Interfaith Panel Thurs. May 15

  OOPS.  I didn't see Kayle's name.  Sorry for the comment.  But even so, 1 of 8 isn't all that representative.  Trinity Baptist, where I used to attend has never chosen to involve itself in any local Interfaith efforts.  The congregation perceives that kind of involvement as a dilution of Baptist tenets.    

  Sue
    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: keely emerinemix 
  To: Sue Hovey ; Bill London ; vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:51 AM
  Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Interfaith Panel Thurs. May 15

Kayle Rice is the female pastor of the UU . . . what saddens me, though, is the decision of conservative Christian churches to not involve themselves in this.

Keely

---------------------------------
  From: suehovey at moscow.com
To: london at moscow.com; vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 09:34:04 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Interfaith Panel Thurs. May 15

        It looks interesting--too bad, though, women on the Palouse must be thought not to have any thoughts that would be valued in this setting.

  Sue Hovey
    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bill London 
  To: vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net 
  Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 6:01 PM
  Subject: [Vision2020] Interfaith Panel Thurs. May 15

  There will be a panel discussion this coming Thursday, May 15 7pm -9pm at the 1912 Center in Moscow

  Subject: Promoting Peace and Harmony on the Palouse/ Spritiual Approches from Interfaith Perspectives

  Not only is this an important subject, it is the first interfaith panel we have had in a long time - and I hope you will come to learn and to support this effort. Come and bring your friends.

  Speakers: Rev. Kayle Rice, Unitarian Universalist Church of the Palouse (Moderator)
  Sayed Daoud, Pullman Islamic Center
  Lawrence Fox, Jewish Community of the Palouse
  Nicholas Gier, Prof Emeritus Philosophy, UI and Unitarian Church
  Walter Hesford, Prof. of English, UI and Emanuel Lutheran Church
  Ryder Stevens, US Army Chaplain, Christian Science Lecturer
  Chris Vaughn, Bahai, Community

  Summary by: Fr. Bill Taylor, St. Augustine Center, Moscow

  Questions/comments will be accepted from the floor
  Refreshments will be served

  Sponsored by: The Common Ministry WSU, Christian Science Society of Moscow-Pullman, Pullman Islamic Center, Unitarian Universalist Church of the Palouse

---------------------------------

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List services made available by First Step Internet, 
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
http://www.fsr.net 
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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