[Vision2020] just sarcasm? no!

Wed May 14 13:37:01 PDT 2008

Rev. Keely,

  It is sad you try to defend your stereotyping of people. And it is also sad that you only like white guys that "know their place." 

  My suggestion, to you Keely, is not to attack people based on their race, gender, etc. if you want people to be open to looking at things from a different angle.

  Your tactics of kicking a guy repeatedly in the groin, for having the audacity of being born male, and wondering why some men ask why you do that, and respond by saying, because you are a white male, doesn't help your cause.

  I am curious Keely, how I personally have benefited from being a white guy? You don't know me and my situation well enough to make that claim. You are simply making a generalized stereotype that ALL WHITE GUYS have it better then all other people. And that simply is not true. It is a racial stereotype. Just as assuming that all minorities and women have it worse off then white men. 

  I understand that this country has had a 250 year history of discrimination against Non-Whites, women, and some religions. But assuming that nobody else is under fire or discriminated against, or that white men cannot be discriminated against is horrendously flawed thinking.

  Reverse discrimination hinders the cause of human rights. It attacks and vilifies those that wish to better understand. Most people don't have a problem, including white guys, what a person's gender, race, religion, creed, disability, orientation, or national origin is. We don't. Really, we don't give a hoot. Bringing it up every ten seconds and focusing in on it like that is the entirety of a person is a step backwards. Making sure every panel and staff has a perfect ratio of Whites, Blacks, India, Mexicans, Women, Men, Homosexuals, persons with a disability, etc is STUPID and destructive. It is time to move on and get out the 60s. Hire people based on merit, and see people as an individual, not their race, gender, disability, etc. Every person is a minority, unique, and should not be categorized. 

  I hope Keely, you never work at a homeless shelter, or a food bank, because no doubt you would feed the white guy last, because in your mind, he has it better than everyone else.

  Best Regards,

  Donovan

keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
      .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }    Dear Donovan, or whoever gets to play him this morning,

I believe you may have missed, or ignored, the part about "trading in social division;" in other words, "white guys" who benefit from racism, sexism, etc., and who trade in -- encourage, take part in, further the cause of, manipulate through -- social division.  

These people (please re-read the first sentence) are the ones who annoy me when they ask in pseudo-innocence why "the rest of us" care about those things.  Some white males are like that.  Most are not.  I'm married to a white guy who I love deeply.  I cherish the two white guys I'm raising.  I'm infinitely fond of the white guy who's my dad.  They are all privileged white men who seek to understand the "other" in a society that defines "otherness" too often as "not of the prevailing white, Protestant, male standard," and who recognize their privileged status and use what they have and what they know to empower and care for those around them.  They're also acutely aware of how much they need other people.  They don't dare suggest that other people are simply poor imitations of them; they see other people -- women, non-Anglos, gays, poor people, non-Christians -- as intrinsically and uniquely valuable expressions of the love of a Creator who transcends every possible
 category we could claim for ourselves.  You'll have to ask yourself if you're like that, or like the guys in my initial post.

But it's a lot more fun to rant and rave against me, I know, so have at it.  I just wish you had the guts to use your real name.  Either way, though, have a lovely day.

Keely

---------------------------------
  Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 00:03:10 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] just sarcasm? no!
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; vision2020 at moscow.com

  Keely,

  " I find it more than a little annoying when white guys who trade in social division "

  This is precisely the type of racist, discriminatory, sexist, derogatory language that makes me ask why you think this helps end discrimination and further better understanding?

  You think because someone is white, or male, or a certain brand of Christian, they cannot participate, or know any other type of discrimination or hardship, or have anything meaningful or useful to contribute? This commentary is disgusting, hurtful and deliberately divisive. 

  I would think that after decades of attacking people for their race, gender, religion, disability status, sexual orientation, to end discrimination against it would be long recognized as a tactic that doesn't work and just puts people off. 

  When you attack someone for their gender, as you do, or their religion, as you do, or their race, as you do, you turn people off. You think your woes, and pains, and discrimination is worse and less justified than what others may go through. And this is not always the case, and a big stereotype perpetrated by you and others that needs to be stop. It is so hurtful, to be told you are worthless, have no opinion, or could know no discrimination because of your skin color, gender, religion. As though that is everything your are, and nobody else is discriminated again. That is SO offensive, and factually incorrect.  

  Ask yourself why all the other Western Modernized Nations, France, Britain, Germany, Italy, Sweden, don't have the hang ups that the US does about Race, Religion, Gender, Disability etc. They have had women leaders, great ones, and women in every position, without having the hostile, negative, nasty, self righteous discriminatory and divisive positioning your have. 

  Your obsession, that is constantly insulting people, and pointing out peoples differences as a weakness, doesn't not exist. As a result, they don't have the problems that the US has with it. 

  I don't care if you are a women, you are still a proud sexist. I don't care your race, you are still a racist. I don't care your religion, you are still against freedom of religion.

  And yes, Keely, I legally fit into two minority groups that are "specially protected" by the federal and state government. So don't play those games with me. You don't know what discrimination I have faced. Or what court and legal battles I have faced, or what adversity I have faced. But you know, I don't think discriminating against people because they are not a women, or because they are white, or richer than me, or don't have a disability, or they are a Christian, or some other characteristic that isn't is like me, is the answer--as you do. 

  Nor do I obsess about it. 

  If we would just hire people based on merit, and give everyone an equal shot, we would not have to obsess over differences in people. Or like you, attack them people they don't fit a minority group you can easily identify by meeting them in person. 

  Best Regards,

  Donovan

keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
      .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P  {padding:0px;}  .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage  {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}        .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P  {padding:0px;}  .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage  {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}    
Visionaires,

I wasn't too terribly worried that my "why not ask a patriarch from the League of the South?" comment earlier today -- based on "Donovan's" question about why everyone gets so worked up about race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. -- would be seen as sarcastic to people.  It was; I think we all know that I do sarcasm fairly well, sometimes not with noble intention or honorable result.  I try to apologize immediately and publicly when I'm merely insulting.

This, however, was something different, and I'd like to address my offlist correspondent in explaining why I wrote what I wrote:

The question came from either the real Donovan J. Arnold of UI student government fame or a cadre of Dono-Wannabes using his identity to engage in debate without the backbone to so -- and I believe that to be the case, based on similarities in these and in the literary canon of Edna Wilmington, Shirley Pissedoff, etc., all puppets masterfully engaged by our skylarking Defenders of All Things Kirk.  Also, I'm pretty familiar with Donovan's rhetoric and style; this doesn't seem to be the guy I sparred with during the bond campaign.  Either way, though, the question bothered me in its quasi-innocence?  Why -- the plaintive questioner wants to know -- are we all so interested in the ethnic, sexual, religious demographic of an Interfaith group meeting?  Can't we all just get along, or something like that?

But it's the "real" Donovan who has rudely treated people who are different from him, whether by one of the above demographic categories or by holding to political or religious views, perhaps informed by those demographics, that he disagrees with.  He's made it an issue.  Further, if today's questioner is a Kirk defender (The Artist Formerly Known As Edna?), then he is a defender of a religio-political movement that thinks gender, race, religion, sexual orientation and political beliefs are valid -- necessary -- divisors in society.   No one could defend the Confederacy, call for the Southern states to secede from the Union, fly a Confederate flag, and explain slavery as a benefit to black families and seriously be expected to be seen as a "race-neutral" social thinker.  Few cling as mightily to "hard" ideas of male headship and female submission in the church and family, and someday in millennial society, as the all-male eldership of Christ Church.   I don't know of any
 other group that publishes writings that approve of death-by-stoning of homosexuals once they themselves are in control of society, and I've rarely read more smug vitriol directed against liberals than that produced by the paleo-conservative, Deo-Libertarian, paleo-Confederates of Anselm House.  Remember "liberal women are ugly," anyone?

But regardless of the true identity of the author of the original question, that person is indisputably a white male, and I find it more than a little annoying when white guys who trade in social division and benefit from it expect to be taken seriously when they ask why, by golly, are some of us so dang wrapped up in the gender, race, orientation stuff.  It's simple.  We like it when someone other than "you" (or my sons, my dad, or my husband) advance in society.  

It's really that simple, if a bit sarcastic.

Keely

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