[Vision2020] "spawn" (was "Sali Seeks")

Tue May 6 13:31:01 PDT 2008

I did, in fact, make it plain that Gary was not the source of the "cockroaches" comment, just as I made it plain that I objected -- and still do -- to his comments, which I think were careless and disrespectful.   The only "association" one could make between Gary and my Anonymously Bigoted Commentator is that when the ABCs poison the dialog with invective and hate, the judicious and kind among us ought not play into their vileness by carelessly choosing our words.   

I trust, though, that Gary would not refer to my children or his as "spawn," and I'll assume that the Mix and Crabtree progeny strive for a certain minimal level of behavior that I would hope is not defined that suggest that such is the best we can hope for.

Keely

From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; chasuk at gmail.com; donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
CC: ophite at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: "spawn" (was "Sali Seeks")
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 13:19:15 -0700

While I think that Ms.Mix makes it relatively plain, 
for the record and for those on this list whose reading & comprehension 
skills could use a little refinement (you know who you are), it was not me 
that made the cockroach remark. I'm only indirectly being associated with 
it.

I never cease to be amazed at what the people who disagree 
with me manage to read into what I write. Since Ms.Mix uses young Mexican 
immigrants rather liberally and imprecisely, please let me be clear. Children 
of  ANY immigrant, illegal or no, whether they be hispanic, african, asian, 
or white are, of coarse, blameless. Young, middle aged, and elderly 
immigrants who follow the rules and come here legally are also fine by me. 
Young, old, or otherwise "fill in the blank" immigrants who are here in 
violation of US law are a different matter and I do, in fact, have a problem 
with them. I also have a problem with gangs of every color and flavor, felons of 
most all stripes, and all people who willfully place a burden on society when 
they have the option to do otherwise. Attempting to portray me as a racist by 
relying on what someone imagines they read between the lines or 
"think" they discern from my choice of vocabulary strikes me as 
decidedly "less than charitable."

g

----- Original Message ----- 

  From: 
  keely emerinemix 

  To: Chasuk ; Donovan Arnold 
  Cc: g. crabtree ; Andreas Schou ; vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:09 AM
  Subject: "spawn" (was "Sali Seeks")

  Dear Chas,

Please help me!  I'm in a dilemma here -- am I 
  "playful," "intellectually dishonest" or "morally elite"?  I'm getting 
  ready for my day and it's hard to know which shoes to wear . . . Keds?  
  Black stilettoes?  Vegan Birkenstocks?

Anyway.

I do object 
  to "spawn," precisely because while it means "that which is begotten," 
  "offspring," or "biologically reproduced," it doesn't, to me, reflect the 
  honor that human beings are due.  I think of "spawn" in two ways:  
  One, as in "salmon spawning," which indicates instinctive, wild, massive 
  populating, or "spawn of Satan" -- baby Beelzebubs, or the New York 
  Yankees.  I will charitably assume that Gary meant neither, but I wish he 
  had been more careful, given the too-common derision directed at Mexican 
  immigrants because (I'm quoting one correspondent who responded to an article 
  I'd written on another venue) "they breed like cockroaches."  I think 
  Gary gives his point away when he says he has no problem with young Mexican 
  immigrants, as long as they don't become "gang members" or "felons,"  or 
  "a burden" to this great nation.

Well, that's a standard I'd like to 
  hold everyone to, and I think it's revealing, perhaps unintentionally so, of a 
  less-than-charitable way of 
  thinking.

Keely

> Date: Mon, 5 
  May 2008 21:58:55 -0700
> From: chasuk at gmail.com
> To: 
  donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sali Seeks to 
  Delay Mexican Consulate
> CC: kjajmix1 at msn.com; jampot at roadrunner.com; 
  ophite at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> 
> On Mon, May 5, 2008 
  at 9:04 PM, Donovan Arnold
> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> 
  wrote:
> 
> > Why do liberals call them children when they are 
  illegal immigrants but an
> > aborted fetus when they are an economic 
  inconvenience?
> 
> This thread has grown puzzling. First, because 
  I am mystified by
> Keey's objection to the use of the word "spawn." I 
  consider it nearly
> synonymous with the word "offspring," both of which 
  I have used to
> refer to my own children, with no derogatory intent. I 
  also refer to
> my brothers and sisters as "siblings," and to my wife, 
  occasionally,
> as "spouse."
> 
> Donovan, I THINK this 
  diversion occurred because of your fractured sentence:
> 
> "If 
  someone born here is born here in the commission of a crime
> against 
  the country, I don't think you can argue that always
> necessarily 
  entitles automatic citizenship."
> 
> Keely playfully pointed out 
  the infants cannot be guilty of committing
> any crime. I think that 
  this should be uncontroversial.
> 
> So why the abortion hijack? 
  The obvious answer to your question --
> obvious to this liberal, anyway 
  -- is that I call children "children"
> and fetuses "fetuses." Setting 
  the semantic squabble aside, how is
> your question a logical response 
  to anything that has come before?
> 
> Chas

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