[Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate
Donovan Arnold
donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Sun May 4 16:51:31 PDT 2008
Rev. Keely,
Are you trying to make me laugh at your humor, or cry for your ignorance?
". . .the Guia del Migrante Mexicano, whose very first page states that the pamphlet is not intended to encourage or enable illegal border crossing."
Then what is the book about, Keely? If that isn't its intent? The book is an instructional manual on how to break the law. If it wasn't for illegal border crossing, it would show pictures of people going to the immigration office and getting a Visa and waiting in line at a legal port of entry.
"Hardly a guide to lawbreaking or a touristy lure for the desperate, it strikes me as a reasonable, conscientious effort by the consulate to educate its citizens, knowing that some will still cross, but making no solicitation nor offering any encouragement that they do so."
How to avoid law enforcement and trespass, is not a effort to educate its citizens how to break US law? Are you serious? Would you support such a pamphlet on beating your wife? I bet you wouldn't. This is a pamphlet designed to educate and assist illegal boarder crossings and how to elude and evade law enforcement in their pursuit to enforce US laws.
"I've been accused of being unpatriotic, but I'm damned proud that whatever its myriad other faults, my country offers basic civil liberties to prisoners and detainees. I'm so sorry Donovan can't join me in that."
Wow! Is that the misstatement of the week on Vision 2020? Keely, do you really think illegal laborers or detainees in the United States are treated with basic civil liberties?
News for you! They aren't. Illegal laborers in the United States are treated as modern industrialized slaves. Many of them die in horrible conditions, get raped, sold, abused, beaten, forced to work for minimal pay, and denied services even our most murderous felons are given.
Illegal labor in the United States hurts the laborer, it hurts the US worker, its hurts the US economy, it hurts the Mexican economy, it hurts civil liberties, and it hurts America's soul.
Too bad Keely won't join me in condemning these practices by going against the corrupted US and Mexican government officials hurting their citizens to make a cheap buck for exploitative businesses funding their positions of power.
Best Regards,
Donovan
keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
.hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } In addition to my many other faults, I read, write and speak Spanish, which I found helpful as I read through most of the Guia del Migrante Mexicano, whose very first page states that the pamphlet is not intended to encourage or enable illegal border crossing. It also states, right up front in the introduction, that there are a great many risks in attempting to do so. In fact, it's a pretty depressing 18 pages -- warning after warning about the dangers of crossing illegally, whether by the river or through the desert, alone or in a group, with or without a pollero e coyote, the specific perils children encounter, the likelihood of arrest, detention, and deportation, and an admonishment to seek legal, documented entry. Hardly a guide to lawbreaking
or a touristy lure for the desperate, it strikes me as a reasonable, conscientious effort by the consulate to educate its citizens, knowing that some will still cross, but making no solicitation nor offering any encouragement that they do so.
I wasn't even offended that the latter part of the Guia lays out specific rights detainees have in the United States, even if they are found to be without correct documentation. I feel a glow of pride in my country when I reflect on the fact that detainees cannot legally be hit, tortured, verbally abused, denied food and water, denied emergency medical care, denied access to a consulate representative, forced to offer evidence against other immigrants, or deprived of the simple knowledge of where they are and what will happen next. I've been accused of being unpatriotic, but I'm damned proud that whatever its myriad other faults, my country offers basic civil liberties to prisoners and detainees. I'm so sorry Donovan can't join me in that.
Keely
---------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 14:02:54 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; joekc at adelphia.net
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Rev. Keely,
Once again, you distort what I say, in the worst possible way, like you do everyone else, to try and show you are the moral elitist.
The reality is, your email reveals that you are aware that Mexican Consulates do in fact issue ID cards to illegal immigrants so that they can deplete social services and prevent US citizens from getting services they need.
You distort my view that I don't support basic rights for all humans. I do. I just don't believe that the US taxpayer ought to be required, nor can it afford, to pay for the birth of every child, care of every injured person, feeding of every mouth, and the education of every mind from any person and their children that wonder over our boarders. Mexico needs to take on the responsibility of educating and taking care of its own people and children, not dump it on another country.
US people are very giving people. But Mexico needs to take care of its own people, and not place the burden of its citizens basic care and rights on the US people. We cannot afford it. Our schools are falling apart, they are not properly funded. Our medical care system is unaffordable to most US citizens now, our poor cannot get jobs with livable wages, our police are getting shot, and the roads are unfit for safe comfortable travel. The failing economy is now the top concern for most US citizens.
I would think that if Keely was against mistreatment of humans, she would be against bringing them and encouraging them here to the US where they are being used as modernized industrialized slaves. Slavery is wrong. And she should support the ending of illegal transport of people like cattle to be exploited and treated as modern day slaves, and be against the greedy businesses that are exploiting them.
And Keely is also ill informed about the Consulates advice on getting past the boarder and evading law enforcement officials. The Mexican Government published: "Guia del Migrante Mexicano"
http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer/GuiaDelMigranteMexicano.pdf?docID=242
You can also pick up a copy at your local Mexican Consulate.
Best Regards,
Donovan
keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}
Donovan disputes my contention that foreign consulates, specifically Mexican consulates, do not exist to aid "illegal aliens" in procuring social services for which they are not legally entitled, and calls me dishonest and deceptive. He reveals that he knows as little of my moral character as he does the work of foreign consulates and reminds us that undocumented immigrants do, in fact, often receive taxpayer-funded social services.
And that's true. The United States does ensure access to emergency medical treatment and obstetric services -- in-hospital delivery of babies, not prenatal care -- to those who've immigrated here without papers. Children whose parents lack papers are legally entitled to public school education, and many states provide drivers' licenses to adults who pass the licensing tests but may or may not have proper documents. I think these things are representative of our country's better nature; Donovan and his allies disagree. But one thing is certain: Mexican immigrants do not show up at Mexican consulates in the U.S. when they have a medical emergency or are about to give birth. They don't seek a K-12 education from the consulate, which also does not issue U.S. drivers' licenses. Further, they don't seek or receive inside tips on sneaking into the country, although I suppose that Donovan may equate that with any help or counsel the consulate offers. The consulate does
exist to ensure the legal rights of its citizens and is a clearinghouse for information on life in the United States. And while Donovan may recoil in horror at the idea that undocumented immigrants are entitled to certain basic human and civil rights while here, others of us are glad that the consulates are there to offer some protection and support to those who are the most vulnerable in our society. Its aid to its citizens does not equate to the consulate's delivering a vicious kick to America's constitutional crotch. To assert that the consulate exists to help cheat American taxpayers is more than naive and misinformed -- it's malicious and bigoted. Maybe Donovan doesn't know any better, but Rep. Sali ought to, although the bar for his grasp of political and societal issues is set pretty low. That consulates provide information and identification to Mexicans, whether legally immigrated or not, is indisputable. What I vehemently dispute is that their presence on
U.S. soil is a risk to national security, community identity, cultural health or legal order.
I wish I hadn't used "bullshit" to respond to Donovan; it's not terribly becoming even for those of us who are not reverends. But if my choice of wording was wrong, the point isn't, and I long for the day that rational discussion of U.S. immigration policy replaces the shrill xenophobia that surrounds us.
Keely
---------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 00:06:09 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; joekc at adelphia.net
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Rev. Keely is being dishonest with her statements and intentionally deceptive.
Illegal aliens, the same as legal immigrants, in the US, are legally entitled to get education, emergency medical services, welfare, low income housing, and other tax supported services intended to go to US citizens. She knows courts have ruled we cannot deny these services based on legal status.
So you can see her statement;
"The consulates do not exist to help Mexican immigrants gain access to taxpayer-supported social services to which they are not, by reason of their immigration status, legally entitled.",
is a big meaningless pile of sh*t worded in a manner to make you swallow it down that my statement was false, when she knows it wasn't.
The main function of Mexican Consulates is to get illegal aliens access to US taxpayer supported services. I said nothing about the illegality of the entitlement.
Each day 1000 illegal aliens alone visit the LA Mexican Consulate to obtain "ID cards" which they force local government, through federal law, to except in place of US driver's licenses and Visa, which only illegal immigrants do not have. This allows the people here illegally from Mexico to access state and federal services.
Keely is aware of this fact. She is also aware that Consulates provide legal and financial assistance to illegal aliens so they can remain in the US. It is also known that the consulates provide pamphlets on how to avoid detection in the US while here illegally and how to cross the boarder illegally and not get caught.
I am guessing that MOST readers on the V, are not so naive as to believe that the reason consulates exist, and they get tens or hundreds of thousands of visitors by illegal aliens each years, is to show support for diplomatic and trade relations with the US and Mexico.
Best Regards,
Donovan
keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} As politely as possible, let me respond to Donovan as someone who has spent a lot of time in the Mexican consulate in Seattle.
Bulls**t.
The consulates do not exist to help Mexican immigrants gain access to taxpayer-supported social services to which they are not, by reason of their immigration status, legally entitled. Suggesting that they do is recklessly, maliciously untrue. But it is entirely understandable coming from someone as misinformed on the issue as Donovan, and as dense as Bill Sali.
Keely
---------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 22:01:27 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
To: joekc at adelphia.net
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate
Joe,
Are you serious? Or are you joking? If you have been anywhere outside the protective bubble of a University, you must be joking.
First off, the only reason that Mexican Consulates exist is to get illegal aliens access to US government services, like welfare, unemployment benefits, food stamps, diver's licenses, gas vouchers, low income housing, legal aid, and jobs, that would otherwise go to US citizens.
Second, you are wrong that Americans would not take farm work if the farm work paid a livable wage. If you believe that ANY workers should be allowed to be paid a sub-livable wage, than you sir, need to rethink your outlook on the value of a person.
Third, your statements reveal your racists and stereotyped beliefs. Illegal aliens are not all a bunch of dumb, idiotic potato pickers making $4 an hour. Most of them are bright, intelligent, hard working inventive people, certainly more so than the bottom 1/3 of US workers they are competing with in the US job market. They work in the hospitality, construction, manufacturing, agriculture, automotive, and almost every other category in the below middle class job market. Having 40,000 illegal immigrants in the state willing and able to work in the jobs lower class citizens can only do hurts their wages. Why does a business only pay a house cleaner $10 an hour instead of $12? Because he can hire 30 others willing to do the work for the $10. Same goes for meat packers, lawn services, farm workers, and other services and industries.
Joe, you don't live in the real world. You aren't forced to find a job making $10 an hour, and when you apply you are waiting with 20 others that are willing to do the same job for $9 and have 20 years experience, most of them not here legally? How many times have you had that happen to you, Joe? I bet none. You live in the fantasy world where illegals are bunch of dumb educated idiots that can only pick potatoes and tomatoes for $4. They are aren't carpenters, drivers, maids, painters, lawn care providers, manufacturers, and in other jobs reducing livable wages for the bottom 1/3 of the work US workforce.
Real wages are on a decline, and most US citizens are suffering as a result of illegal immigrants being allowed to work in the US for lower wages, and sometimes illegal wages.
Oppose Slavery, Joe. Oppose illegal immigration. Support livable wages for all US workers, Joe. Oppose illegal immigration.
Best Regards,
Donovan
Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net> wrote:
Donovan,
How on earth will Sali's efforts "keep illegal activities and illegal immigrants
out of the state"? For that matter, what can the Mexican government do to
prove that they "won't aid illegal aliens" and earn a Mexican consulate here?
And just for the record, I'm sure that there are plenty of folks in Idaho and
Washington who would be willing to pay you sub-minimum wage to pick fruit.
The problem is not with the Mexican immigrants, and they aren't taking away
jobs that would otherwise go to American citizens.
--
Joe Campbell
---- Donovan Arnold wrote:
=============
I am voting to reelect Bill Sali precisely because he is attempting to keep illegal activities and illegal immigrants out of the state. Idaho has enough problems getting enough funding for its schools, and providing other social and medical services. Having to provide for thousands of others who are not legal residents is to much of a burden for poor Idahoans. An influx of labor also reduces wages, something we also can ill afford in Idaho.
Best Regards,
Donovan
Tom Hansen wrote:
Just when you thought that Bill Sali couldn't get more ignorant, I am here
to tell you . . .
>From today's (May 1, 2008) Spokesman Review -
-----------------------------------------------
Sali seeks to delay Mexican consulate
Todd Dvorak
Associated Press
May 1, 2008
BOISE – Rep. Bill Sali, R-Idaho, is urging Secretary of State Condoleezza
Rice to hold off opening a Mexican consulate in Idaho until the government
can show the office won't aid illegal aliens.
Sali, a conservative first-term congressman, sent Rice a letter Wednesday
saying Idaho residents deserve guarantees that Mexican consular offices
will not help illegal aliens obtain identification cards that can be used
to receive government services or other benefits.
"Our government has the moral and constitutional duty to take into
consideration how foreign consulates affect our fellow citizens here in
our own country," Sali wrote in the letter to Rice that was made available
to news media.
"While I appreciate the important role that the Mexican and other foreign
consulates play in facilitating trade and assisting their citizens in
distress just as our foreign consulates do, that is not the issue at stake
here," he added.
Sali asserted that the State Department has done little to assure
residents that a consular office would not be used to aid illegal
immigration.
The State Department did not return phone messages from the Associated
Press on Wednesday.
In March, Sali received a letter from the State Department saying an
application for a consular office in Boise is pending.
Idaho is one of several states without a Mexican consulate, but a grass-
roots effort to open one has been under way for several years. Supporters
say they have collected about 10,000 signatures on a petition requesting a
Mexican consular presence in the state.
-----------------------------------------------
Seeya round town, Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"People who ridicule others while hiding behind anonymous monikers in chat-
room forums are neither brave nor clever."
- Latah County Sheriff Wayne Rausch (August 21,
2007)
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