[Vision2020] Banditry is Not an Option Was: Economists Predicted $90/Barrel...

[Donovan Arnold]

Chas,
   
  I guess we just have a difference of opinion on how the world operates. I don't think my wealth creates poverty anywhere in the world. In fact, I think the opposite. I think the wealth of the US creates wealth elsewhere in the world. You buying a bad Doritos produces jobs and stability in our and other countries around the world, it fills a need.
   
  If someone demanded a car in exchange for the life of a little girl and we gave it to them, the world would soon be out of little girls and cars. On the other hand, if we put a bullet in the head of everyone that takes little girls hostage, we would soon be out people taking girls hostage. 
   
  I think Bush invaded Iraq for several reasons, which he honestly believes are legitimate reasons. But I also think he is was wrong. He believes that invading Iraq would be worth the cost. He underestimated the cost and the profits. People say we are now "winning the war in Iraq" now. But nobody will tell me what exactly it is that we are winning for $1 trillion spent, not to mention the lives lost. 
   
  The United States should reduce its reliance on oil for its own security and future. Making your country dependent on foreign nations that don't like you for its basic needs is a bad position to be in. 
   
  I don't think you got the message of Jesus if don't believe the fact that he actually existed.
   
  Best Regards,
   
  Donovan
   
   
   
   
  
Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com> wrote:
  Donovan,

I don't have time to address all of your misapprehensions
specifically, because you introduce so many tangents and make so many
spurious assumptions that it would require weeks to unravel them.

You suggested that our military commandeer abandoned (and disused) oil
rigs. Like Sunil, I interpreted this suggestion differently, as I
have since made clear. Based on my own admitted misinterpretation, I
objected to your proposal, still thinking that you were referring to
our forces in Iraq.

Now, keeping my misinterpretation in mind, I (then and now) would
object to our military becoming professional bandits. My objections
were based on humanitarian reasons, keeping also in mind that USians
are not the only humans. I don't subscribe to heliocentricity or any
version of geocentricity. I am family-and-loved-one-centric. Again,
I have made this clear in subsequent postings, even though it was
largely tangential, but I was trying, at that point, to address your
many irrelevant branches.

I didn't say that you were rich if you owned a television, only that
you weren't "poor" when compared to the population of most of the
world. I made this point manifestly clear.

My morals don't allow me to dispossess others merely to increase my
comfort level. Those "others" don't have to be in Moscow, Idaho --
they could be in Bangladesh.

Suppose that a psychopath came to you in the middle of the night, and
he was holding a 6-year old Moscow, Idaho girl by her shoulder, with a
gun pointed at her head.

He says to you: "Give me your car, or I will blow her brains out."

Presumably, you would give Mr. Psychopath your car, without hesitation.

The same man calls you from Pullman with the same condition, except
that this time the girl is the child of a couple from Pullman,
Washington. She has actually never been to Moscow. You've never seen
her. But you know that he will kill her.

Presumably, you would give Mr. Psychopath your car, without hesitation.

The same man calls you from New York with the same condition, except
that this time the girl is the child of a couple from New York, New
York. She has actually never been to Moscow. You've never seen her.
But you know that he will kill her.

Presumably, you would give Mr. Psychopath your car, without hesitation.

The same man calls you from Mumbai with the same condition, except
that this time the girl is the child of a couple from Mumbai, India.
She has actually never been to Moscow. You've never seen her. But
you know that he will kill her.

Presumably, you would give Mr. Psychopath your car, without hesitation.

In Iraq, right now, our psychopathic president is holding a gun to the
heads of thousands of little girls in exchange for oil. He is doing
it under a deceptive guise, but that is what he is doing, nonetheless.
He makes himself feel better by referring to these little girls as
"collateral damage." I prefer to think of collateral damage as
murder.

Yes, I am using the term psychopath loosely. I am sure that there is
some psychopathy checklist somewhere that defines it precisely. Yes,
I know that war is sometimes justified. Increasing my level of
comfort is not adequate justification.

I would gladly live in a world in with a greatly reduced
standard-of-living, with no savings, no health care, and no security
of a job tomorrow than take the life of a single person, even by
collateral damage.

if Mr. Psychopath were holding a gun to your head, I would choose
Donovan over a satisfactory standard-of-living, a good savings,
adequate health care, and the guarantee of a job tomorrow. If
wouldn't die for you, and I wouldn't sacrifice my family or loved ones
over you, but I would sacrifice all of my creature comforts. I would
do the same for anyone on Vision2020, or in Mumbai, or anywhere else.

Hypocritically, I still eat Doritos rather than send my money to feed
the starving in Somalia. I should be, but that is a little too
proactive for my undisciplined self to manage, except for rarely,
whereas it should be the norm.

I don't necessarily even believe in the historicity of Jesus, but I do
believe in his message. His message arguably would have condemned my
inaction, but it inarguably would have condemned holding guns to
children's head to live better than the majority of the world, whether
you call it collateral damage or murder.

Chas

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