[Vision2020] Economist Rankings of the World's Greatest

Tue Jun 3 15:30:42 PDT 2008

In part, Gary Crabtree wrote:

"A quick phone call to our local food bank and a brief conversation with its
director informs me that the "food banks frequently run out of food" answer
to my question is nonsense, at least here in Latah county. I was told that
since the banks inception such a thing has never happened."

Well, I don't know that the OP had such a narrow vision of the food bank
world as to look only at Latah County.  Certainly over in Whitman County
there have been problems through the years keeping the various food banks
stocked, which is a very common problem around the rest of the United
States.  Kudos to those of us in Latah County who apparently keep our local
food banks adequately stocked, but that's the crux of the problem, isn't it?
Not all communities are able to be so generous.

And, I'm sure during your conversation the food bank director talked about
the lack of fresh produce and meat, important things for the diet, right?
That's a couple of problems for you right there . . . 

Besides, I think Paul already answered your question - did you not read his
post last night?

Having worked with clients who relied on access to food banks to survive,
there's something humiliating and perhaps even shameful about forcing people
to ask for private charity, at least, that's what my clients told me.  While
food banks can be a godsend, not all are run the same, and what's available
at any food bank can vary from day-to-day, which can be a huge problem for
those with medical conditions requiring special diets.  I'm not currently in
the field, but there never used to be fresh produce available (although my
hope is that's changed from May to October with Backyard Harvest) and meat
was really only available for Thanksgiving and Christmas.  Even locally,
then, there are huge gaps our local food banks can't meet AFAIK.

As the apparently richest country in the world, I do find it shameful that
we're not meeting such a basic human need as healthy and nutritious food for
all.  Food banks can be great, but there's something very wrong when we as
the richest country in the world have turned our collective backs on such a
basic human need as healthy and nutritious food for all.  It's a pretty
risky proposition to force those in need to depend on the charity of others
for such a basic thing as food . . . 

JMHO,

Saundra Lund

Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.

~ Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2008 through life plus
70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside
the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
author.*****

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of g. crabtree
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 2:27 PM
To: Andreas Schou
Cc: vision2020; Dave
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Economist Rankings of the World's Greatest

"Um. It's virtually impossible to commit fraud with an EBT card without
the collusion of a supermarket. Food stamps are no longer in a form
where they're independently transferable. Fun fact: the US government
now spends more money per year on welfare fraud prevention than they
have ever lost per year to welfare fraud."

What would stop me from telling my friend/neighbor/co-conspirator that I
would be happy to do their shopping for them. They give me cash, I purchase
the items with my card. Seems pretty easy to me. I doubt that there is much
that is factual in your "fun fact," but assuming you are correct it would
simply be another reason to leave matters such as these to the private
sector to be run at the local level.

When I donate to a privately run local food bank I know that my donation
will go 100% to feeding someone who is hungry, barring their taking the
banks largess and selling it on the street corner, a fairly unlikely
scenario. No money is wasted on bloated administration or bureaucratic paper
shuffling. In a government run program I would be surprised if for every tax
dollar spent ten cents worth of food makes it to the unfortunate.

A quick phone call to our local food bank and a brief conversation with its
director informs me that the "food banks frequently run out of food" answer
to my question is nonsense, at least here in Latah county. I was told that
since the banks inception such a thing has never happened.

Lets drag this back to the core of the question instead of arguing the
peripheral issues. What is it about a food bank that is shameful?

g

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Andreas Schou" < <mailto:ophite at gmail.com> ophite at gmail.com>

To: "g. crabtree" < <mailto:jampot at roadrunner.com> jampot at roadrunner.com>

Cc: "Dave" < <mailto:tiedye at turbonet.com> tiedye at turbonet.com>; "vision2020"
< <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com> vision2020 at moscow.com>

Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 1:31 PM

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Economist Rankings of the World's Greatest

> On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 1:00 PM, g. crabtree <
<mailto:jampot at roadrunner.com> jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>  It is much easier to commit fraud with food stamps.
> 
> Um. It's virtually impossible to commit fraud with an EBT card without
> the collusion of a supermarket. Food stamps are no longer in a form
> where they're independently transferrable. Fun fact: the US government
> now spends more money per year on welfare fraud prevention than they
> have ever lost per year to welfare fraud.
> 
>> In addition, what is it about food stamps that make them less "shameful"
then utilizing a > food bank?
> 
>> What makes them better?
> 
> Reliability? Food banks frequently run out of food.
> 
>> g
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dave" < <mailto:tiedye at turbonet.com> tiedye at turbonet.com>
>> To: "vision2020" < <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com> vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 11:50 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Economist Rankings of the World's Greatest
>>
>>
>>> How about food stamps?
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>> g. crabtree wrote:
>>>> Spoken like a man who can't come up with a coherent answer for a rather
>>>> straight forward question.
>>>>
>>>> "Just what mechanism for assistance do you envision that an "affluent
and
>>>> technologically advanced" nation might come up with that would be less
>>>> shameful?"
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps you simply were confused by my presentation. I'll try again.
>>>>
>>>> Privately operated food banks efficiently provide a needed service. How
>>>> do
>>>> you think it could be done better?
>>>>
>>>> g
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Windows, OSX, or Linux is the same choice as:
>>> McDonalds, Burger King, or a (real) Co-Op.
>>>
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