[Vision2020] ANY immigration

Tue Jan 22 13:50:39 PST 2008

Thanks to Chas and Paul for their responses about the immigration issue over the weekend that I guess is the can-o-worms I opened up last week.  I think my point about the govt. making laws that basically support the profiteering big businesses that are the benefactors to illegally acquired immigrants rather that making it easy for ALL those who wish to enter to come and add their skills to the pot are the same one's who support propagandizing the "WAR on DRUGS" as a means of enslaving over a million people in prisons on mandatory minimum sentences for non-violent minor drug offences and petty crimes related to drug addiction.  

If those people cared about drugs, other than the man made govt approved big pharma that's being force fed down all the children's throats,  they would support actual treatment programs rather than free govt money for each person you can snare into the prison then force to work for $.19/day making military blankets sold to us by no-bid private contractors.

I believe I have posted articles with facts about hispanic immigrant formed businesses (some even illegals or their parents) that went on to becoming multi-million and even billion dollar market caps hiring hundreds and thousands of good ol' tax paying bodies.  You can search yourselves for the Hispanic Business 500 list.  

Oh yeah, don't forget to check out this month's Reader's Digest article about the illegal migrant vegtable picker; who, inspite of the system being set up to keep him in his place, went on to become a surgeon!!  Hope he can save a few people's lives while opening their eyes just a bit beyond the "Welcome to Moscow" sign.

Just 2 more cents added to the fantastic points made by Chas and Paul previously.

Don> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: Illegal Immigration: Was Re: Vision2020 Digest, (Tom Hansen)> 2. Re: Illegal Immigration: Was Re: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 19,> Issue 97 (Chasuk)> 3. Election 2008 (so far) (Tom Hansen)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:49:59 GMT> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Illegal Immigration: Was Re: Vision2020> Digest,> To: vision2020 at moscow.com> Message-ID: <200801202250.m0KMo3mT092384 at mail-gw.fsr.net>> > Quick quiz:> > Who said . . .> > "Immigration is an American experience. Acceptance is an American value."> > Tom Hansen> Moscow, Idaho> > Paul,> > > > I never said it was the fault of illegal immigrants for their poor > working conditions, I> said it was the fault of illegal immigration. Do you understand that > difference? I don't> blame people for trying to improve their quality of life. I blame our > government for not> trying to protect ours.> > > > The reality is because they are here illegally, they can say nothing > about their working> conditions. They empower those that wish to victimize people because they > are committing a> crime by being here and cannot speak out. Many of these come here with > dreams of riches,> when in fact they become victims of physical and sexual abuse. > > > > If we followed the law, and immigrants came to this country legally, > they would be> working in safe conditions because they could not be exploited. That is > fact.> > > > Because businesses that operate legally have to compete against slave > labor, they have> to lower their wages and benefits too, hurting the legal workers, and > legal immigrants> that were following the law.> > > > If you believe that businesses that profiteer on slave labor and > illegal unsafe> conditions that unfairly compete with legal businesses should be stopped, > then you should> be for cutting their supply of slave labor off. > > > > It is NOT the responsibility of the US and it's citizens to supply a > job to every man> and woman in the world that has living conditions that are not equal to > ours. It is our> obligation to ensure that we provide jobs that we can without sacrificing > our quality of> life and to make sure that EVERYONE that comes into this country is given > safe working> conditions and living wages.> > > > The defense of, "Well, they are still better living conditions than > where they came> from.", is not an acceptable answer to allow people to come into the > United States,> knowingly or unknowingly, willing or unwilling, to be victimized through > physical and> sexual abuse. A willing victim is still a victim. > > > > There is a proper way, and an improper way to absorb immigrants into > to this country.> The improper way leads to tragedy, victimization, slavery, and misery for > the immigrants.> The proper way leads to progress, a better quality of life, and a better > future. We need> to allow people in the proper way, the legal way. > > > > Best Regards,> > > > Donovan> > > > Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:> > > > --- Donovan Arnold > > wrote:> > > > > Second, illegal immigration set this country back> > > 100 years in worker conditions and rights. We have> > > workers now in conditions that make the Triangle> > > Shirt Factory look like the Luxor. Because they work> > > here illegally, they are subjecting themselves and> > > others to working for wages workers were making 20> > > years ago, and in far less safe and sanitary> > > conditions. One would think, if slavery stayed and> > > evolved from 1865 to 2008, it would look like many> > > of the factories today. > > > > > > > That's the thing that gets to me about this debate. > > It's all about the evil, illegal immigrants. In the> > paragraph quoted above, you appear to be blaming the> > illegal immigrants themselves for working in horrible> > conditions for little money. As if they reject the> > better conditions their Multimillionaire factory owner> > keeps trying to force upon them, because they would> > rather live in abject poverty.> > > > They are subjecting themselves to these wages because> > it's a step up from what their life was like before,> > and because the money coming in (small as it may seem> > to us) is a substantial pay increase. Mr.> > Multimillionaire knows this, and rapaciously takes> > advantage of that so that he can make a few extra> > bucks he's just going to throw at some stupid wall rug> > or something.> > > > We're going about this the wrong way. Think of a> > target, a circle with a black dot in the center. > > Illegal immigrants come from the outside of the circle> > so that they can get to the dot in the center. That> > dot is Mr. Multimillionaire's business. Is it more> > efficient to put up a fence around the circumference> > of the circle, or to remove the dot in the center that> > is drawing all these people?> > > > If we come down hard on Mr. Multimillionaire everytime> > he does this and make it not cost effective to> > continue, then the stream of immigrants will at least> > falter. Some may come over anyway, because we treat> > our homeless better in some places. Anyway, this> > doesn't solve the problem of the person living in> > abject poverty on the other side of the fence. > > Arguably, that's not our problem - but if we wanted to> > do something about it we could look at increasing the> > flow of legal immigrants over the border.> > > > Paul > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search.> > > "People who ridicule others while hiding behind anonymous monikers in chat-> room forums are neither brave nor clever." > > - Latah County Sheriff Wayne Rausch (August 21,> 2007)> > ---------------------------------------------> This message was sent by First Step Internet.> http://www.fsr.com/> > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:22:23 -0800> From: Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Illegal Immigration: Was Re: Vision2020> Digest, Vol 19, Issue 97> To: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com, donald edwards <donaledwards at hotmail.com>,> Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>> Message-ID:> <ef6f41de0801201522j3b8a6adbjb6050402a387b6e9 at mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1> > Note: This is a slightly revised version of a message previously sent> to Donovan.> > I'm not pro-immigration or anti-immigration, I'm pro-person.> I'm not pro-American or pro-Idahoan, I'm pro-person. Whether you were> born in Iraq or in Pakistan or in Ecuador or in the USA makes no> difference to me. Whether you are my family or my friend makes a> difference to me. While "family" comes first, it does> have a pecking order. My significant others take precedence over all> other humans, myself included. I think this is probably true for a> great many people, though not everyone would necessarily state it so explicitly.> > What does that have to do with immigration? Simply this: absolutely> anything that I can do to improve the lot of my family, I will do.> This, of course, assumes that their current living conditions are> intolerable. I won't hurt others or damage property (insert list of> potential ills here) to guarantee them a premium skiing trip in> Austin, but I will do literally anything to ensure that they have the> necessities (food, clothing, and shelter). Again, that doesn't mean> filet mignon, Giorgio Armani designer duds, and a home in the> Hamptons.> > Many illegal immigrants couldn't provide their families adequate food,> clothing or shelter in their previous situations. They come here> because it is better here. If they have children, the need is urgent.> Childhood doesn't last forever. I have two daughters whom I> shepherded safely into adulthood. I would have done anything for> them. If that had entailed breaking a few laws, of course I would> have unhesitatingly done so. I would still do anything for them. For> the record, I am not expecting to have to break any laws to provide> for their necessities. They are both already more successful than> their father has ever been.> > Spend my tax money on illegal immigrants. Spend your money on illegal> immigrants. Spend virtually anyone's money in the USA on illegal> immigrants. It might mean that we get to rent one less DVD from> Hastings this week, or forfeit that bag of Doritos. Such is the> tragedy of being rich. I made less than $8,000 last year. However,> even at that level of (relative) poverty, I am still in the top 13.74%> richest people in the world.> > http://www.globalrichlist.com/> > Come one, come all.> > "Give me your tired, your poor,> Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,> The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.> Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:> I lift my lamp beside the golden door."> > Chas
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