[Vision2020] Illegal Immigration: Was Re: Vision2020 Digest,

[Tom Hansen]

Quick quiz:

Who said . . .

"Immigration is an American experience.  Acceptance is an American value."

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
> Paul,
>    
>   I never said it was the fault of illegal immigrants for their poor 
working conditions, I
said it was the fault of illegal immigration. Do you understand that 
difference? I don't
blame people for trying to improve their quality of life. I blame our 
government for not
trying to protect ours.
>    
>   The reality is because they are here illegally, they can say nothing 
about their working
conditions. They empower those that wish to victimize people because they 
are committing a
crime by being here and cannot speak out. Many of these come here with 
dreams of riches,
when in fact they become victims of physical and sexual abuse. 
>    
>   If we followed the law, and immigrants came to this country legally, 
they would be
working in safe conditions because they could not be exploited. That is 
fact.
>    
>   Because businesses that operate legally have to compete against slave 
labor, they have
to lower their wages and benefits too, hurting the legal workers, and 
legal immigrants
that were following the law.
>    
>   If you believe that businesses that profiteer on slave labor and 
illegal unsafe
conditions that unfairly compete with legal businesses should be stopped, 
then you should
be for cutting their supply of slave labor off. 
>    
>   It is NOT the responsibility of the US and it's citizens to supply a 
job to every man
and woman in the world that has living conditions that are not equal to 
ours. It is our
obligation to ensure that we provide jobs that we can without sacrificing 
our quality of
life and to make sure that EVERYONE that comes into this country is given 
safe working
conditions and living wages.
>    
>   The defense of, "Well, they are still better living conditions than 
where they came
from.", is not an acceptable answer to allow people to come into the 
United States,
knowingly or unknowingly, willing or unwilling, to be victimized through 
physical and
sexual abuse. A willing victim is still a victim.  
>    
>   There is a proper way, and an improper way to absorb immigrants into 
to this country.
The improper way leads to tragedy, victimization, slavery, and misery for 
the immigrants.
The proper way leads to progress, a better quality of life, and a better 
future. We need
to allow people in the proper way, the legal way.  
>    
>   Best Regards,
>    
>   Donovan
> 
> Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>   
> --- Donovan Arnold 
> wrote:
> 
> > Second, illegal immigration set this country back
> > 100 years in worker conditions and rights. We have
> > workers now in conditions that make the Triangle
> > Shirt Factory look like the Luxor. Because they work
> > here illegally, they are subjecting themselves and
> > others to working for wages workers were making 20
> > years ago, and in far less safe and sanitary
> > conditions. One would think, if slavery stayed and
> > evolved from 1865 to 2008, it would look like many
> > of the factories today. 
> > 
> 
> That's the thing that gets to me about this debate. 
> It's all about the evil, illegal immigrants. In the
> paragraph quoted above, you appear to be blaming the
> illegal immigrants themselves for working in horrible
> conditions for little money. As if they reject the
> better conditions their Multimillionaire factory owner
> keeps trying to force upon them, because they would
> rather live in abject poverty.
> 
> They are subjecting themselves to these wages because
> it's a step up from what their life was like before,
> and because the money coming in (small as it may seem
> to us) is a substantial pay increase. Mr.
> Multimillionaire knows this, and rapaciously takes
> advantage of that so that he can make a few extra
> bucks he's just going to throw at some stupid wall rug
> or something.
> 
> We're going about this the wrong way. Think of a
> target, a circle with a black dot in the center. 
> Illegal immigrants come from the outside of the circle
> so that they can get to the dot in the center. That
> dot is Mr. Multimillionaire's business. Is it more
> efficient to put up a fence around the circumference
> of the circle, or to remove the dot in the center that
> is drawing all these people?
> 
> If we come down hard on Mr. Multimillionaire everytime
> he does this and make it not cost effective to
> continue, then the stream of immigrants will at least
> falter. Some may come over anyway, because we treat
> our homeless better in some places. Anyway, this
> doesn't solve the problem of the person living in
> abject poverty on the other side of the fence. 
> Arguably, that's not our problem - but if we wanted to
> do something about it we could look at increasing the
> flow of legal immigrants over the border.
> 
> Paul 
> 
> 
>        
> ---------------------------------
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"People who ridicule others while hiding behind anonymous monikers in chat-
room forums are neither brave nor clever." 

- Latah County Sheriff Wayne Rausch (August 21,
2007)

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