[Vision2020] Will Moscow support Hawkins sprawl-mall?

mark r. seman baukunst at moscow.com
Sat Jan 12 21:41:56 PST 2008

moscow's infrastructure and services are significant bargaining chips for
moscow city hall to use to negotiate a win-win proposition w/ hawkins.  the
corridor development will have a HUGE impact on moscow's infrastructure and
services (& citizens.)  ted does good to point out to listening city leaders
(and collaborating state & latah county officials) they should place energy
and resource conservation issues on the negotiation agenda.  monetary
compensation should not overshadow the value of conservation and
sustainability programs.  just as short-term gains should not eclipse
long-term benefits.  this is an opportunity for all stakeholders to help
implement common-sense environmental standards that are becoming the norm of
the near-future.  why not be "innovative & progressive" and lead - help get
beyond the wasteful inefficiencies of the status quo.


mark r. seman, architect

-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On Behalf Of Ted Moffett
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 6:49 PM
To: keely emerinemix; Dan Carscallen
Cc: v2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Will Moscow support Hawkins sprawl-mall?


If the Hawkins proposed mall could be built implementing the energy
conservation and alternative energy features of the Saranac building
in Spokane, it would answer some sustainability and environmental


as would a transportation infrastructure mitigating local increases in
fossil fuel use.  How many shoppers who would not otherwise make the
drive from Moscow west out of town, but would instead shop in Moscow,
will now drive out to and back from this proposed mall, if built?

Continued development utilizing the fossil fueled powered/CO2 emitting
economic model of suburban "sprawl," with increased fossil fuel use
for shopping, is short sighted and destructive, due to the serious
problems of oil depletion and climate change.

But given that some on the new Moscow City Council have posted to
Vision2020 in the past that they do not acknowledge the scientific
consensus on the grave dangers of anthropogenic climate change from
CO2 emissions, assuming they still hold this view, the objections to
local development posited on increases in fossil fuel use and thus CO2
emissions, may not be respected.

Ted Moffett

On 1/12/08, keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
> The economic Libertarians will try to convince all of us of three things:
> One, that only out-of-touch liberals would oppose the mall; two, that
> is woefully underserved by big stores selling cheap stuff; and three, that
> there is an economic/social war going on between Pullman and Moscow, and
> we don't "win" by expanding in any way possible, we'll be forever
> to a poverty-stricken, hillbilly'ed existence.
> I would welcome retail as a response to solid, forward-thinking growth,
> when growth is primarily retail, it isn't the kind of permanent,
> sustainable, viable growth that Moscow needs.
> Funny, but not really, is that these same Libertarians who want
> metastasizing growth of any type are so often opposed to facilities
> improvement for public schools and municipal services.  I would find that
> interesting if it weren't for the fact that quality of life for people who
> aren't among their group and associates is always less important in their
> eyes than more opportunities to eat up land and plop retail outlets on
> available inch.  I suppose that "the market" provides a better altar than
> human services and public infrastructure.
> Keely
> ________________________________
> From: london at moscow.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:43:16 -0800
> Subject: [Vision2020] Will Moscow support Hawkins sprawl-mall?
> Won't it be grand?  The Moscow-Pullman Highway turned into one long strip
> mall.....
> And you can read in today's Lewiston Tribune (below) that the first big
> in that direction will likely soon be taken.  The new Moscow City Council
> under pressure to sell use of Moscow utilities (like sewage and water, and
> possibly police/fire protection) to the planned Hawkins shopping center
> located in Washington state on the Moscow-Pullman Highway.  The new
> members (pragmatic politicians that they are) seem to be willing to ignore
> the real issues and fall for a cheap payoff.
> If the Moscow council ships utilities across the state line to enable this
> strip mall, Moscow will face a series of problems, including:
> --depletion of the aquifer that supplies this town with most of its water
> --massive sprawl that will further uglify the Palouse and ravage existing
> downtown vitality
> --bankruptcy of Moscow businesses unable to compete with this new shopping
> mall
> --continuing future upgrades of Moscow infrastructure to cover the demands
> made by this extension of services, upgrades that will be paid for by
> taxpayers
> Is this what Moscow residents really want?
> BL
> -----------------------------------------
> Council shift changes outlook for proposed Hawkins development
> By David Johnson
> Saturday, January 12, 2008
> MOSCOW - Politics here may have shifted enough after the November election
> to trigger talks about the city providing water and sewer services across
> the state line for the proposed Hawkins Co. shopping center.
> A majority of Moscow city councilors, Whitman County commissioners and a
> spokesman for Hawkins told the Lewiston Tribune there's renewed potential
> for cooperation.
> This despite Moscow's continued legal challenge of Hawkins' attempts to
> secure water rights to drill its own wells for the 700,000-square-foot
> shopping mall.
> The situation comes as the first of two public comment meetings has been
> scheduled in Colfax on Monday. The county commissioners will take
> beginning at 1:30 p.m., regarding Hawkins' recent request for Whitman
> to float revenue bonds of more than $10 million to help fund
> (including water and sewer) for the development.
> A Whitman County pro-business citizens group, meanwhile, Friday endorsed
> proposed bond issue and called on Moscow officials to drop their water
> rights appeal against Hawkins.
> "It's clear Moscow's appeals are not about water but about keeping out
> particular kinds of businesses," April Coggins, spokeswoman for Businesses
> and Residents for Economic Opportunity wrote in a news release. "That
> attitude was rejected by Moscow voters in November and it is our hope that
> the new Moscow city council will see things differently and seek to
> cooperate with their neighbors."
> Moscow's waterlines extend right up to the Hawkins property, and the
> treatment plant is located nearby.
> "Hawkins is always open to talking to the city of Moscow," said Jeff De
> project manager for the proposed shopping center. He declined further
> comment because of the pending legal appeal.
> It remains unclear how much money Moscow might make (through fees) or
> Hawkins might save if the two entities can reach an agreement about water
> and sewer services. But City Attorney Randy Fife and Public Works Director
> Les McDonald confirmed that a hookup of services is both legal and
> technically possible.
> Whitman County Commissioners Jerry Finch and Greg Partch, who continue to
> champion the Hawkins project as the beginning of retail development
> here and Pullman, said it's time for Moscow to either join ranks or get
> of the way.
> "Moscow didn't say no, they said hell no," Finch said about the city's
> refusal to cooperate with development of the mall. "Before the election,
> it's pretty obvious the door had been slammed."
> Three new Moscow councilors were elected in November and appear to have
> become part of a five-member, pro-business majority. The three, Walter
> Steed, Dan Carscallen and Wayne Krauss, along with council President Bill
> Lambert, all said they are willing to talk with Hawkins and Whitman County
> officials about water and sewer services. Councilor John Weber couldn't be
> reached for comment, but indicated in the past he favors cooperation.
> Only Councilor Tom Lamar, who has gone on record opposing retail
> in the corridor, balked at renewed talks. "I think the best way for
> to tap into our sewer and water is to locate in Moscow," Lamar said.
> Moscow Mayor Nancy Chaney, who's been accused of spearheading efforts to
> thwart the Hawkins project, said her intentions are rooted in
> and groundwater concerns. That was confirmed by McDonald. "The mayor's
> driving concern," he said, "is the water resource that the whole region
> relies upon.
> "Moscow has always been open to talking," said Chaney, adding that the
> for such discussion has already been set through the water rights appeal.
> She said the city has proposed mediation as a means of settling the issue.
> But Partch said talks, if they happen, shouldn't happen in a legal arena.
> Withdrawal of the appeal, he said, would be the best way for Moscow to
> good faith. "That would be a huge gesture on their part," he said, "and we
> would certainly like to work with them."
> The water rights appeal hearings are scheduled to begin in March.
> "You can't build without water," Finch said, adding that many people think
> Chaney is simply using the water issue as the only legal lever available
> stop retail development in the corridor. "She's the one who seems to be
> set against it."
> A shopping center, said Finch and Partch, is not necessarily a big water
> consumer. But it would surely be a big revenue producer for the county.
> According to county records, the undeveloped Hawkins acreage, which abuts
> the Moscow city limits and the Washington-Idaho state line, currently
> generates about $1,400 in annual tax revenue. If the mall is developed to
> full capacity, it could produce nearly $1.8 million in annual property and
> sales taxes for the county, De Voe told the commissioners when making his
> pitch for the $10 million in infrastructure bonds.
> While Moscow couldn't directly tap into those tax dollars, councilors here
> said the city might be able to negotiate a fee for water and sewer
> that translates into a profit.
> "If it's going to happen and we can sell them something," Lambert said,
> not?"
> "I'm very anxious to get together with entities across the border," said
> Krauss.
> "I would be interested in talking about the possibility of extending
> services to Hawkins," Steed said.
> "I think that I would," Carscallen said about talking. Whether Hawkins
> connects to Moscow or drills its own wells, he said, doesn't seem to make
> lot of difference. "They're going to get it out of the same tub we're
> getting ours."
> Researchers have said the underground aquifers on the Palouse have been
> steadily dropping. But, lacking data about just how much water is
> the same scientists have said a water management challenge is at hand, not
> crisis.
> Finch suggested its up to Moscow officials, since they've filed the appeal
> against Hawkins, to propose new talks. "If they send us a letter, I would
> find it more receptive," he said.
> But Lambert said the catalyst for talks might have to come from elsewhere.
> "I don't see why it would hurt for these people to approach us. Somebody
> to generate it, but it wouldn't be something generated by the council, per
> se."
> Moscow City Supervisor Gary Riedner said the city might reach out. "I will
> do what we can to facilitate it at the mayor's direction."
> "I know lots of people are talking about talking," Fife said.
> De Voe, meanwhile, told Whitman County officials that his company wants to
> begin construction this summer. As proposed, the shopping complex would be
> anchored by a Lowe's home improvement center.
> ---
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