[Vision2020] Advanced Real Estate Question

Wed Feb 13 11:22:29 PST 2008

Em, did you mean 8 Feb 08 

or 

2 Aug 08 (in which case - WOW! do you have a pipeline or what?!)

And you seem to be reading something that isn't in your quote....he says "as much as three times the in-town rate" which I gather in reference to the water rate.  I don't get the local rag nor have access to the web copy...if you'd care to post it like Saundra and others do when using that as a source, that'd be great.  Not sure how you get "fair rate" outta that, but oh well.

Still don't see where signing a "Confidentiality Agreement" is allowed given the State Laws on open meetings and other concerns others on this BB have mentioned.  Heck, even Wayne said he didn't know he was going to have to sign such a thing until the day/minute of his being taken to the meeting....or was he mis-stating the facts during his comments as posted on "Moscow Cares"?

J  :]

From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: privatejf32 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:44:28 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Advanced Real Estate Question

>From the Moscow Pullman Daily News web site on 
080208:

"The current rate for businesses outside the city limits 
is twice that of businesses in town, Krauss said. The rate for Hawkins could be 
as much as three times the in-town rate."

Your second question is also answered in the same article 
by your beloved mayor, Nancy Chaney.

Reading, it's FUNdamental
g

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  J 
  Ford 
  To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 7:11 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Advanced Real 
  Estate Question

Questions, G....how do you know "Hawkins will be paying fair market value for the services they 
  receive."...you have some kinda insider that is feeding this to you or is this 
  just a rough guess on your part?  You sure seem to be the 
  "man-in-the-know" about things these days.

Since when does a Council 
  have to sign a "Confidentiality Agreement", in secret, not being given any 
  kind of notice before-hand that this will be required of them, in order to 
  discuss this with kind of thing with a developer?  What were they afraid 
  would be disclosed and opposed to by the public?  The other developments 
  (with the exception of WalMart) in the City have all been out in the open and 
  opened to public comment as it should be.  Why the change-up?

Just 
  asking.

J :]

    From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: garrettmc at verizon.net; 
    vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 06:15:07 -0800
Subject: 
    Re: [Vision2020] Advanced Real Estate Question

    Just a couple of points. Everyone is aware of 
    the old saw "repeat a lie often enough..." Well, droning on about Moscow 
    "subsidizing" the new development surely falls into this category. Hawkins 
    will be paying fair market value for the services they receive. Future 
    infrastructure improvements brought about by increased demand are funded 
    through the monies collected from rate payers for services and not from 
    general tax revenues. As a result Hawkins will be paying its own 
    way right on down the line.

    The next point is about the "need" for this 
    development. This is not a public works project. There does not have to be a 
    determination of need before an entrepreneur can decide to take a risk with 
    their own land and assets in hopes of making a profit. I know that there is 
    a sizable group here in Moscow that thinks that all decisions should be made 
    collectively but thankfully we have not quite yet reached that unpleasant 
    point.

    Lastly, I have asked this question before but 
    I'll give it one more shot. Since every anti-development writer has bemoaned 
    the councils "need to hide their negotiations" what is it that you think has 
    been kept from us? We have been presented with the final result, 
    all we missed was the sausage making. Is it your contention that 
    something illegal took place? If so, then just say it plain. Making vague 
    and insupportable insinuations is a cheap tool for carving out a weak 
    argument.

    g

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: "Garrett Clevenger" <garrettmc at verizon.net>
    To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 4:27 
    PM
    Subject: [Vision2020] Advanced Real Estate 
    Question

> Ted writes:
> 
> "there are critical issues 
    regarding this Hawkins
> development that are not even on the radar in 
    this
> discussion, such as mitigation of CO2
> emissions related 
    climate change, and those eventual
> massive economic impacts, and the 
    economic
> consequences of fossil fuel depletion, as it 
    relates
> to the long term viability of sprawling suburban
> 
    development, when the fossil fueled fleet of vehicles
> that deliver 
    to, service and allow consumer access to
> this development, becomes 
    very expensive to operate."
> 
> 
> I reply:
> 

> Ted has a really good points here (and questions
> further in 
    his post)
> 
> After being dissed by the council regarding the 
    noise
> ordinance in such an unscrupulous way, my tolerance
> 
    for council actions that seem underhanded is "zero." 
> This is 
    something that motivated me to look into the
> Hawkins deal a bit 
    deeper.  Considering the secret
> negotiations and potential cost 
    to Moscow, this is
> something everybody should look into before 
    deciding
> one way or the other.
> 
> I admit I am against 
    the mall for my own personal
> reason as I think it's a waste of 
    resources just to
> sell cheap stuff made overseas (another way 
    this
> drains on our national economy)  Most of the big 
    box
> stores are making such profit because they exploit the
> 
    labor and resources of other countries.  
> 
> I'll provide 
    my argument against it as fairly as I
> can, but now you know that I 
    have initial
> philosophical disagreements with it to begin 
    with.
> 
> Hawkins is proposing a 714,000 square foot mall 
    right
> on our border near the Palouse Empire Mall.  They 
    say
> Lowe's is their anchor store.
> 
> The Palouse 
    Empire Mall is 384,000 square feet.
> 
> What I wonder is why 
    people need so much more mall
> space?  How do they figure 
    investing in this thing
> will bring them profits?  According to 
    the Spokesman
> on 2/9, "The development might cost $60 million 
    to
> $100 million"
> 
> $100 million just to pay it 
    back.  They are putting it
> near Moscow because they want 
    Moscow's business.  So
> that potentially is at least $100 of 
    lost revenue to
> Moscow businesses.
> 
> Home Depot 
    recently withdrew their proposal to build
> in Moscow, and apparently 
    the potential Lowe's did not
> influence their decision.  
    >From what I can tell, they
> pulled out because they didn't think 
    Moscow would pull
> in enough revenue to cover their costs.
> 

> So, if Home Depot feels Moscow is not profitable, it
> makes 
    you wonder why Lowe's, and the whole Hawkins
> mall, thinks they can 
    actually make this profitable.
> 
> Perhaps the fact that the 
    council voted to provide
> corporate welfare to the predatory 
    developers on the
> other side of the border tips the balance in 
    their
> favor.  And the fact that Whitman county is
> 
    subsidizing $9.1 million to pay for the Hawkins public
> 
    infrastructure.
> 
> If you are someone who supports the mall, I 
    suggest
> you ask yourself, "Is building Hawkins worth it and
> 
    needed?  Do you feel comfortable knowing Moscow will
> be 
    subsidizing that development, Moscow's competitor? 
> Do you think all 
    the environmental consequences, such
> as water use, land development 
    (How many tons of dirt
> are going to have to be moved on that hill to 
    make it
> flat and buildable?) and fuel use really is 
    necessary
> just to have more stores that more than likely 
    will
> sell the same things other stores in the region sell?
> 

> Finally, why can't the process be more transparent and
> 
    democracy-friendly?  The fact that the city feels the
> need to 
    hide their negotiations seems suspicious to
> me.
> 

>>From what I can tell, I have even more reasons to not
> 
    support this mall based on the evidence I've been able
> to find, and 
    I particularly resent the city making the
> taxpayers of Moscow 
    subsidize Hawkins.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Garrett 
    Clevenger
> 
> 
    =======================================================
> List 
    services made available by First Step Internet, 
> serving the 
    communities of the Palouse since 1994.   

>               
    http://www.fsr.net                       

>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> ======================================================= 

  Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now! 

  =======================================================
 List 
  services made available by First Step Internet, 
 serving the 
  communities of the Palouse since 1994.   

  http://www.fsr.net                       

  mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20080213/7b977365/attachment-0001.html 