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Em, did you mean 8 Feb 08 <br><br>or <br><br>2 Aug 08 (in which case - WOW! do you have a pipeline or what?!)<br><br>And you seem to be reading something that isn't in your quote....he says "as much as three times the in-town rate" which I gather in reference to the water rate. I don't get the local rag nor have access to the web copy...if you'd care to post it like Saundra and others do when using that as a source, that'd be great. Not sure how you get "fair rate" outta that, but oh well.<br><br>Still don't see where signing a "Confidentiality Agreement" is allowed given the State Laws on open meetings and other concerns others on this BB have mentioned. Heck, even Wayne said he didn't know he was going to have to sign such a thing until the day/minute of his being taken to the meeting....or was he mis-stating the facts during his comments as posted on "Moscow Cares"?<br><br>J :]<br><br><br><blockquote><hr>From: jampot@roadrunner.com<br>To: privatejf32@hotmail.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:44:28 -0800<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Advanced Real Estate Question<br><br>
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<div><font face="Arial">From the Moscow Pullman Daily News web site on
080208:</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">"The current rate for businesses outside the city limits
is twice that of businesses in town, Krauss said. The rate for Hawkins could be
as much as three times the in-town rate."</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Your second question is also answered in the same article
by your beloved mayor, Nancy Chaney.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Reading, it's FUNdamental</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">g</font></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="privatejf32@hotmail.com" href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com">J
Ford</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b> <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 13, 2008 7:11
AM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Advanced Real
Estate Question</div>
<div><br></div>Questions, G....how do you know "<font face="Arial" size="2">Hawkins will be paying fair market value for the services they
receive."...you have some kinda insider that is feeding this to you or is this
just a rough guess on your part? You sure seem to be the
"man-in-the-know" about things these days.<br><br>Since when does a Council
have to sign a "Confidentiality Agreement", in secret, not being given any
kind of notice before-hand that this will be required of them, in order to
discuss this with kind of thing with a developer? What were they afraid
would be disclosed and opposed to by the public? The other developments
(with the exception of WalMart) in the City have all been out in the open and
opened to public comment as it should be. Why the change-up?<br><br>Just
asking.<br></font><br>J :]<br><br><br>
<blockquote>
<hr>
From: jampot@roadrunner.com<br>To: garrettmc@verizon.net;
vision2020@moscow.com<br>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 06:15:07 -0800<br>Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Advanced Real Estate Question<br><br>
<style>
</style>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Just a couple of points. Everyone is aware of
the old saw "repeat a lie often enough..." Well, droning on about Moscow
"subsidizing" the new development surely falls into this category. Hawkins
will be paying fair market value for the services they receive. Future
infrastructure improvements brought about by increased demand are funded
through the monies collected from rate payers for services and not from
general tax revenues. As a result Hawkins will be paying its own
way right on down the line.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The next point is about the "need" for this
development. This is not a public works project. There does not have to be a
determination of need before an entrepreneur can decide to take a risk with
their own land and assets in hopes of making a profit. I know that there is
a sizable group here in Moscow that thinks that all decisions should be made
collectively but thankfully we have not quite yet reached that unpleasant
point.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Lastly, I have asked this question before but
I'll give it one more shot. Since every anti-development writer has bemoaned
the councils "need to hide their negotiations" what is it that you think has
been kept from us? We have been presented with the final result,
all we missed was the sausage making. Is it your contention that
something illegal took place? If so, then just say it plain. Making vague
and insupportable insinuations is a cheap tool for carving out a weak
argument.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">g</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">----- Original Message ----- </font>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">From: "Garrett Clevenger" <</font><a href="mailto:garrettmc@verizon.net"><font face="Arial" size="2">garrettmc@verizon.net</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">To: <</font><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">vision2020@moscow.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 4:27
PM</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Subject: [Vision2020] Advanced Real Estate
Question</font></div></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><br><font size="2"></font></font></div><font face="Arial" size="2">> Ted writes:<br>> <br>> "there are critical issues
regarding this Hawkins<br>> development that are not even on the radar in
this<br>> discussion, such as mitigation of CO2<br>> emissions related
climate change, and those eventual<br>> massive economic impacts, and the
economic<br>> consequences of fossil fuel depletion, as it
relates<br>> to the long term viability of sprawling suburban<br>>
development, when the fossil fueled fleet of vehicles<br>> that deliver
to, service and allow consumer access to<br>> this development, becomes
very expensive to operate."<br>> <br>> <br>> I reply:<br>>
<br>> Ted has a really good points here (and questions<br>> further in
his post)<br>> <br>> After being dissed by the council regarding the
noise<br>> ordinance in such an unscrupulous way, my tolerance<br>>
for council actions that seem underhanded is "zero." <br>> This is
something that motivated me to look into the<br>> Hawkins deal a bit
deeper. Considering the secret<br>> negotiations and potential cost
to Moscow, this is<br>> something everybody should look into before
deciding<br>> one way or the other.<br>> <br>> I admit I am against
the mall for my own personal<br>> reason as I think it's a waste of
resources just to<br>> sell cheap stuff made overseas (another way
this<br>> drains on our national economy) Most of the big
box<br>> stores are making such profit because they exploit the<br>>
labor and resources of other countries. <br>> <br>> I'll provide
my argument against it as fairly as I<br>> can, but now you know that I
have initial<br>> philosophical disagreements with it to begin
with.<br>> <br>> Hawkins is proposing a 714,000 square foot mall
right<br>> on our border near the Palouse Empire Mall. They
say<br>> Lowe's is their anchor store.<br>> <br>> The Palouse
Empire Mall is 384,000 square feet.<br>> <br>> What I wonder is why
people need so much more mall<br>> space? How do they figure
investing in this thing<br>> will bring them profits? According to
the Spokesman<br>> on 2/9, "The development might cost $60 million
to<br>> $100 million"<br>> <br>> $100 million just to pay it
back. They are putting it<br>> near Moscow because they want
Moscow's business. So<br>> that potentially is at least $100 of
lost revenue to<br>> Moscow businesses.<br>> <br>> Home Depot
recently withdrew their proposal to build<br>> in Moscow, and apparently
the potential Lowe's did not<br>> influence their decision.
>From what I can tell, they<br>> pulled out because they didn't think
Moscow would pull<br>> in enough revenue to cover their costs.<br>>
<br>> So, if Home Depot feels Moscow is not profitable, it<br>> makes
you wonder why Lowe's, and the whole Hawkins<br>> mall, thinks they can
actually make this profitable.<br>> <br>> Perhaps the fact that the
council voted to provide<br>> corporate welfare to the predatory
developers on the<br>> other side of the border tips the balance in
their<br>> favor. And the fact that Whitman county is<br>>
subsidizing $9.1 million to pay for the Hawkins public<br>>
infrastructure.<br>> <br>> If you are someone who supports the mall, I
suggest<br>> you ask yourself, "Is building Hawkins worth it and<br>>
needed? Do you feel comfortable knowing Moscow will<br>> be
subsidizing that development, Moscow's competitor? <br>> Do you think all
the environmental consequences, such<br>> as water use, land development
(How many tons of dirt<br>> are going to have to be moved on that hill to
make it<br>> flat and buildable?) and fuel use really is
necessary<br>> just to have more stores that more than likely
will<br>> sell the same things other stores in the region sell?<br>>
<br>> Finally, why can't the process be more transparent and<br>>
democracy-friendly? The fact that the city feels the<br>> need to
hide their negotiations seems suspicious to<br>> me.<br>>
<br>>>From what I can tell, I have even more reasons to not<br>>
support this mall based on the evidence I've been able<br>> to find, and
I particularly resent the city making the<br>> taxpayers of Moscow
subsidize Hawkins.<br>> <br>> Sincerely,<br>> <br>> Garrett
Clevenger<br>> <br>>
=======================================================<br>> List
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communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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