[Vision2020] Advanced Real Estate Question

Wed Feb 13 07:11:13 PST 2008

Questions, G....how do you know "Hawkins will 
be paying fair market value for the services they receive."...you have some kinda insider that is feeding this to you or is this just a rough guess on your part?  You sure seem to be the "man-in-the-know" about things these days.

Since when does a Council have to sign a "Confidentiality Agreement", in secret, not being given any kind of notice before-hand that this will be required of them, in order to discuss this with kind of thing with a developer?  What were they afraid would be disclosed and opposed to by the public?  The other developments (with the exception of WalMart) in the City have all been out in the open and opened to public comment as it should be.  Why the change-up?

Just asking.

J  :]

From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: garrettmc at verizon.net; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 06:15:07 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Advanced Real Estate Question

Just a couple of points. Everyone is aware of the 
old saw "repeat a lie often enough..." Well, droning on about Moscow 
"subsidizing" the new development surely falls into this category. Hawkins will 
be paying fair market value for the services they receive. Future infrastructure 
improvements brought about by increased demand are funded through the monies 
collected from rate payers for services and not from general tax revenues. As a 
result Hawkins will be paying its own way right on down the 
line.

The next point is about the "need" for this 
development. This is not a public works project. There does not have to be a 
determination of need before an entrepreneur can decide to take a risk with 
their own land and assets in hopes of making a profit. I know that there is a 
sizable group here in Moscow that thinks that all decisions should be made 
collectively but thankfully we have not quite yet reached that unpleasant 
point.

Lastly, I have asked this question before but I'll 
give it one more shot. Since every anti-development writer has bemoaned the 
councils "need to hide their negotiations" what is it that you think has been 
kept from us? We have been presented with the final result, all we 
missed was the sausage making. Is it your contention that something illegal took 
place? If so, then just say it plain. Making vague and insupportable 
insinuations is a cheap tool for carving out a weak argument.

g

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Garrett Clevenger" <garrettmc at verizon.net>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 4:27 
PM
Subject: [Vision2020] Advanced Real Estate 
Question

> Ted writes:
> 
> "there are critical issues regarding 
this Hawkins
> development that are not even on the radar in this
> 
discussion, such as mitigation of CO2
> emissions related climate change, 
and those eventual
> massive economic impacts, and the economic
> 
consequences of fossil fuel depletion, as it relates
> to the long term 
viability of sprawling suburban
> development, when the fossil fueled 
fleet of vehicles
> that deliver to, service and allow consumer access 
to
> this development, becomes very expensive to operate."
> 

> 
> I reply:
> 
> Ted has a really good points here 
(and questions
> further in his post)
> 
> After being dissed 
by the council regarding the noise
> ordinance in such an unscrupulous 
way, my tolerance
> for council actions that seem underhanded is "zero." 

> This is something that motivated me to look into the
> Hawkins 
deal a bit deeper.  Considering the secret
> negotiations and 
potential cost to Moscow, this is
> something everybody should look into 
before deciding
> one way or the other.
> 
> I admit I am 
against the mall for my own personal
> reason as I think it's a waste of 
resources just to
> sell cheap stuff made overseas (another way 
this
> drains on our national economy)  Most of the big box
> 
stores are making such profit because they exploit the
> labor and 
resources of other countries.  
> 
> I'll provide my argument 
against it as fairly as I
> can, but now you know that I have 
initial
> philosophical disagreements with it to begin with.
> 

> Hawkins is proposing a 714,000 square foot mall right
> on our 
border near the Palouse Empire Mall.  They say
> Lowe's is their 
anchor store.
> 
> The Palouse Empire Mall is 384,000 square 
feet.
> 
> What I wonder is why people need so much more 
mall
> space?  How do they figure investing in this thing
> 
will bring them profits?  According to the Spokesman
> on 2/9, "The 
development might cost $60 million to
> $100 million"
> 
> 
$100 million just to pay it back.  They are putting it
> near Moscow 
because they want Moscow's business.  So
> that potentially is at 
least $100 of lost revenue to
> Moscow businesses.
> 
> Home 
Depot recently withdrew their proposal to build
> in Moscow, and 
apparently the potential Lowe's did not
> influence their decision.  
>From what I can tell, they
> pulled out because they didn't think Moscow 
would pull
> in enough revenue to cover their costs.
> 
> So, 
if Home Depot feels Moscow is not profitable, it
> makes you wonder why 
Lowe's, and the whole Hawkins
> mall, thinks they can actually make this 
profitable.
> 
> Perhaps the fact that the council voted to 
provide
> corporate welfare to the predatory developers on the
> 
other side of the border tips the balance in their
> favor.  And the 
fact that Whitman county is
> subsidizing $9.1 million to pay for the 
Hawkins public
> infrastructure.
> 
> If you are someone who 
supports the mall, I suggest
> you ask yourself, "Is building Hawkins 
worth it and
> needed?  Do you feel comfortable knowing Moscow 
will
> be subsidizing that development, Moscow's competitor? 
> Do 
you think all the environmental consequences, such
> as water use, land 
development (How many tons of dirt
> are going to have to be moved on that 
hill to make it
> flat and buildable?) and fuel use really is 
necessary
> just to have more stores that more than likely will
> 
sell the same things other stores in the region sell?
> 
> Finally, 
why can't the process be more transparent and
> democracy-friendly?  
The fact that the city feels the
> need to hide their negotiations seems 
suspicious to
> me.
> 
>>From what I can tell, I have even 
more reasons to not
> support this mall based on the evidence I've been 
able
> to find, and I particularly resent the city making the
> 
taxpayers of Moscow subsidize Hawkins.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 

> Garrett Clevenger
> 
> 
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