[Vision2020] child forced back/was Romney drops out!?

Tom Hansen thansen at moscow.com
Sat Feb 9 11:54:10 PST 2008


Perhaps this will refresh some memories.

I realize that many of you are eager to cast the blame on Bill (he), 
Hillary (she), or Billary (both) Clinton.  But the truth of the matter is 
that it was a matter of child custody.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0004/07/bn.05.html

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

> 
> I know I'm sidetracking...
> 
> I agree that returning a child to his father may have caused political
prob> lems for Gore had he accepted help from Bill Clinton in 2000.  But I 
do
dis> agree that 'they forced that Cuban child back to Castro.'
> 
> They returned a child to his father after his mother's death.  A child
shou> ld be with his or her natural parents unless there's a showing that 
the
par> ents are unfit.  There was no such showing in the Gonzalez case.  
Instead
w> e had politics sticking its ugly head into family business, just as we
late> r saw in the Terry Schiavo case.
> 
> Extended family, wherever they're located, don't get to grab someone
else's>  child unless the parent/s are unfit.  We wouldn't allow the 
Beverly Hills
> relatives to grab a Moscow/Potlatch/Deary child from a parent just 
because
> the relatives had a big house with a cement pond.
> 
> Sunil
> 
> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:04:17 -0800
> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> To: sdredge at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Romney drops out!?
> 
> Scott,     In 2000 Bill Clinton had a 42% approval rating. Campaigning
with>  Clinton in 2000 would have been a kiss of death. He had an even 
lower
rati> ng in Florida because they forced that Cuban child back to 
Castro.     
Yes> , Gore lost the election because Florida's Secretary of State, 
Kathleen
Har> ris, certified the wrong set of popular votes giving the electoral 
votes
to>  Bush instead of Gore. Also, Nader split the Democratic vote in 
Vermont,
gi> ving the state to Bush. Gore didn't lose the election in 2000, it was
stole> n from him, and Nader made it possible. Nader doesn't have issues 
he is
con> cerned with, he is only concerned about himself. The environment has 
been
d> emolished and set back decades because Bush was allowed into 
office.     
B> est Regards,     Donovan 
> 
> Scott Dredge <sdredge at yahoo.com> wrote:          It's a stretch to 
suggest
> that Nader sabotaged the 2000 election.  The reason Al Gore lost was
becaus> e of Al Gore himself.  Under the categories of coulda, woulda, 
shoulda, 
Go> re coulda had Bill Clinton campaigning for him instead of distancing
himsel> f from Clinton.  And Bill Clinton knows how to run a successful 
campaign.
> 
> I'd like to see a Clinton/Obama ticket running against a McCain/anybody
tic> ket.  Also, it doesn't particularly matter much to me which ticket 
wins,
I'> m just looking forward to the regime change even though George W. Bush 
is
b> asically neutered at this stage.
> 
> -Scott
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----
> From: Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
> To: Garrett Clevenger <garrettmc at verizon.net>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 1:36:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Romney drops out!?
> 
>   On 2/8/08, Garrett Clevenger <garrettmc at verizon.net> wrote:     Edwards
w> ould be good, as I like what he says, but my
> preference would be Ralph Nader, who may very well
> campaign for President.  Appealing to Progressives is
> good with me, despite whatever baggage Nader may have
> (and really, who
>  doesn't have baggage?)
> 
> Nader has a record of working on changing America for
> the better for 40 years.  He is well connected to the
> activist community, and engaging activists is key to
> changing our country from it's disastrous course.  An
> Obama/Nader ticket sounds sweet to me.
> 
> gclev     Many progressives begged Nader to drop out of the 2000
presidenti> al race, due to the potential of splitting the Democratic vote 
harming
Gore> 's chances.  We all know the result.  Nader helped put Bush in the 
White
Ho> use in 2000.  Nader's Florida votes alone gave Florida's electoral 
votes
to>  Bush, as the vote count actually was counted, though we also know that
abs> ent illegal voter disenfranchisement, deliberately pushed by Florida's
Secr> etary of State and Bush supporter Katherine Harris, Gore would have 
won
Flo> rida, even with Nader's participation.     Republican
>  operatives were running ads supporting Nader's 2000 candidacy, knowing
thi> s would hurt Gore.  And Nader knew this.     Nader even argued that a 
Bush
> presidency might be good for the nation in the long run, given that Bush
wo> uld create such a back lash against his policies that progressives in 
the
l> ong run would become more unified and motivated.       But as far as I 
am
c> oncerned, given the damage of the Bush administration, Nader's 2000
preside> ntial run was an irresponsible application of idealistic 
principles over
se> nsible practical politics, resulting in wounds that may not heal for
decade> s.  The pending US Supreme Court nominations in 2000 alone were 
enough of
a>  reason for Nader to withdraw to allow Gore the best chance of a win. 
Nade> r and everyone knew there was zero chance of Nader taking the White 
House.
>  His presidential run did not even result in a stronger party base
supporti> ng Nader
>  or those who support his policies. His supporters are more off the radar
n> ow than in 2000.     I recall hearing from Nader supporters in 2000 how
Gor> e and Bush both represented corporate big money, and entrenched 
elitist
Was> hington power, and were not that different.  Well, we have seen that
howeve> r much this was true, there were substantial differences between 
Gore and
B> ush that would have taken the USA in very different directions on 
critical
> issues, the invasion of Iraq and climate change, for example.  I do not
bel> ieve Gore would have supported the invasion and occupation of Iraq, 
and he
> would have began to address climate change while the Bush administration
wa> s in denial, backing big oil and energy interests, who did not want to
addr> ess climate change for obvious financial reasons.     Nader would be 
a
terr> ible choice for a VP candidate under Obama.  I lost respect for him 
as a
po> litician after
>  his sabotage of the 2000 presidential election.  This showed he is not
wil> ling to compromise when the overall good of the nation is at 
stake.      
T> ed Moffett  
> 
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