[Vision2020] Hawkins Mall and Moscow

Thu Feb 7 19:43:27 PST 2008

Ted,

Thanks for your reasoned thought and attitude towards debate. 

I understand your concerns about the environment and our c02 emissions. However, if more people, hopefully, stay and shop within the community, won't we help save our environment. 

I too would love to have all mom and pop shops with one block of the heart of downtown. This would be impossible though, unless we build a 20 story high shopping mall. But then again who would do that. 

So we are left with an ever increasing population and lack of space. Thus , I can only hope that our wicked smart scientists will create a fuel, friendly too our environment.  

Matt

Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 18:47:33 -0800
From: starbliss at gmail.com
To: mattd2107 at hotmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com; rhayes at turbonet.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Hawkins Mall and Moscow

Matt et. al.

I don't doubt that some consumer spending will go to Hawkins that previously went to Lewiston or Spokane, etc. keeping those dollar in our "area."  Some of those dollars may very well go to the city of Moscow to pay for the water use or other services sourced from our side of the state line.  Some could provide jobs for some Moscow residents, generating income that can then be spent in Moscow.

But my point was that dollars spent at Hawkins could very well take away from businesses in Moscow, having a negative effect on Moscow's economy in various ways.  

I think some assume the Hawkins mall is part of a trend of growth that will raise all boats on the Palouse, but there is ample evidence from many cities in the USA that sprawling suburban development can hurt some aspects of a local economy.  Unless I see a comprehensive study indicating otherwise, I assume no one has proved that the Hawkins development will not take revenue away from some Moscow businesses.  Some will argue no doubt that that's the competitive free market in operation, and any "protectionism" is a mistake.  There are good arguments that can be made to counter this maximum free market argument, which I will not explore now.

I understand the argument that some are making that Hawkins would be able to develop that site without tapping into Moscow's infrastructure, and that a legal challenge to the Hawkins water rights is futile, thus the Hawkins development is/was inevitable.  So Moscow can at least be selling something to the development with water use, etc. getting something out of it.

However, I am not yet convinced that Hawkins would have found it easy to provide all the services that Moscow is offering to facilitate their development.  If Moscow had refused to provide services, leaving Hawkins to seek other options, I'm not sure they would have found it as favorable to go forward.

I have also not seen any evidence that legal challenges to the water rights are absolutely certain to fail.  

But I admit that I have not researched the water rights legal issues, nor how easily Hawkins could develop that site without Moscow's help.

I have three bottom line issues suggesting caution regarding the Hawkins mall: water conservation, increases in climate change inducing CO2 emissions associated with sprawling development, and economic development predicated upon an assumption of cheap fossil fuel energy.  

We do not have the infrastructure in place to deal with a oil crisis, with peak oil either upon us or soon to be.  And until we have an alternative energy infrastructure in place, sprawling malls on the out skirts of cities could become dinosaurs within this century, as the energy costs of driving to and shipping good to these "remote" outlets becomes prohibitive.  

Anthropogenic climate change is perhaps the most daunting threat to humanity in this century.  I am aware many are skeptical of the dangers, but I believe the scientific evidence is compelling enough to now take this issue very seriously and act accordingly.  

Thus all development should be aimed at reducing CO2 emissions associated with economic growth.  I have not seen any evidence this critical issue is being substantively addressed in the proposals for the Hawkins mall (Green building certification, or efficient alternative transportation options for residents in Moscow and Pullman who wish to shop at this mall, for example), but again I may be wrong, given my limited research.

Ted Moffett

On Feb 7, 2008 4:47 PM, Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com> wrote:

Ted,

A study was made by a local college prof( name escapes me right now), in which he noticed 80 million dollars leaving this area.

So my question is how much will a mall with bigger branched stores bring back to this area, and following areas?

Have a good one
Matt

Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 05:22:39 -0800
From: starbliss at gmail.com
To: godshatter at yahoo.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com; rhayes at turbonet.com 

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Hawkins Mall and Moscow

Paul wrote:

If it's close enough to need to connect to our water mains,
won't this have the offsetting effect of bringing more Washington state

dollars to our mall, Walmart, fast food joints, etc?  If they're already
over here, won't at least a few people get their groceries at Winco
instead of driving back to Pullman and across the town to get to a

grocery store?

Won't this bring people from out of the area, some of whom will shop
here in Moscow?  

Won't many in Moscow and Pullman now shop at the proposed Hawkins mall, reducing their disposable income left over to shop in Moscow?  Some in Moscow will skip the Palouse Mall, for example, to shop across the state line, while some from Pullman will not drive on to the Palouse Mall, after stopping at Hawkins, when before they would go to the Palouse Mall.  We then must assume a growth in average income and/or population in Moscow/Pullman to offset this impact, if the Hawkins development is not to lower consumer spending in Moscow.  This is a competitive development aimed at profit.  They'd be "happy" to put some Moscow businesses under to increase their profits, correct?

How far from out of the area the Hawkins development could draw consumers is an interesting question, but Lewiston and Spokane are still going to offer more than Moscow/Pullman, even with the Hawkins development.

We can speculate on these effects, but a comprehensive study of whether or not the proposed Hawkins mall will result in more or less consumer spending in Moscow is indicated.  Has such a study been done?

Ted Moffett

Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now!

_________________________________________________________________
Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!
http://biggestloser.msn.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20080207/8f3de700/attachment-0001.html 