[Vision2020] Hawkins Mall and Moscow
g. crabtree
jampot at roadrunner.com
Thu Feb 7 18:29:48 PST 2008
So what? The water we sell them is from a common pool that supplies business's in Idaho, Washington, and Oregon. What's your point?
g
----- Original Message -----
From: Bookpeople of Moscow
To: g. crabtree ; Bill London ; rhayes at turbonet.com ; vision2020 at moscow.com ; Tom Hansen
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Hawkins Mall and Moscow
The stores you mention are in IDAHO, not Washington!
----- Original Message -----
From: g. crabtree
To: Bill London ; rhayes at turbonet.com ; vision2020 at moscow.com ; Tom Hansen
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Hawkins Mall and Moscow
Mr. London asks:
"You have mentioned that you work in a key/lock shop. What if a giant
megacorporate key/lock shop opens in the new Hawkins Sprawl-Mall."
I would do my best to compete by providing better service through my more intimate knowledge of the local market. When Wal-Mart moved to the area they stocked and sold many of the same products we do, they cut keys as do we, and all at a slightly lower price. We do it better and we're still here. Should megacorporate key/lock shop provide better products and services at a better price then I can, I go out of business as you would expect. Whining to be protected from competition never works (and it's undignified) This is the nature of free markets and its been this way for quite a while now.
The City of Moscow "gives away" water to all of my competitors. Wal-Mart, Tri-State, Moscow Building Supply, Spence Hardware, JJ bldg. Supply, etc. all take advantage of the cities largess. In what way does this contribute to my eventual downfall? Since all of these fine business's are also my customers, perhaps the city is really doing me a favor?
g
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>; <rhayes at turbonet.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>; "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Hawkins Mall and Moscow
> G-
> Let's get specific here in response ....
>
> You have mentioned that you work in a key/lock shop. What if a giant
> megacorporate key/lock shop opens in the new Hawkins Sprawl-Mall. What if
> that new business takes away your customer base and your business
> closes?????????????
>
> Given that scenario, perhaps you can understand why Moscow water (as in
> water pumped through Moscow tax dollars) should not be given away to a mall
> in Washington. It is one thing if your business dies through direct
> competition to another business in Moscow. However, in this situation,
> Moscow is enabling not only Washington to collect property/sales taxes, but
> enables the loss of those same taxes here in Moscow when your business
> folds. Moscow loses both ways.
>
> The water sold to this sprawl mall is (as agreed in the secret deal) priced
> at customary rates. No extra cash for the negative economic impact of the
> mall being in Washington. No extra cash for the future upgrades needed to
> water, sewage and other Moscow facilities. Moscow taxpayers are stuck with
> the bill.
>
> We got took in this secret deal
> BL
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> To: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>; <rhayes at turbonet.com>;
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>; "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Hawkins Mall and Moscow
>
>
>> And what is it that makes "Moscow water" any different from Pullman water
>> or Yakima water or Richland water or Pendleton water or water pumped in
>> The Dalles? The water at all of these locations comes from the same
>> source. The same source that Hawkins would be tapping in any instance
>> whether Moscow agreed to sell them water or they decided to acquire their
>> own water right and pump it for themselves. No matter how you look at it
>> "give-away" is just plain in error.
>>
>> g
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>
>> To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>; <rhayes at turbonet.com>;
>> <vision2020 at moscow.com>; "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Hawkins Mall and Moscow
>>
>>
>>> The idea that Moscow will have some control of the Hawkins mall is
>>> illusory.
>>> The deal, as I understand it, only sets maximum usage that Hawkins would
>>> have targeted anyway-- and far worse, requires Moscow water to be sold at
>>> same rate as city customers.
>>> The Hawkins deal was a give-away.
>>> BL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>>> To: <london at moscow.com>; <rhayes at turbonet.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>;
>>> "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:38 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Hawkins Mall and Moscow
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure what all the whining is about. What is the benefit of the
>>>> City of Moscow forking out thousands of dollars to fight a losing battle
>>>> with Hawkins only to have them acquire a water right that gives Moscow
>>>> absolutely no control or potential revenue? Without the signing of this
>>>> agreement Hawkins would have been able to drill a well and draw that
>>>> water out of the same aquifer we get ours out of without the City
>>>> having any say. This way, we have some control since we are the
>>>> provider. Not only that, we should be able to charge them for services
>>>> at a price significantly higher than what a Moscow business would be
>>>> paying. The silly assertion that "we Moscow taxpayers are financing
>>>> sprawl in Whitman County" is without merit. Whitman county will be
>>>> financing the infrastructure improvements with 9.1 million dollars worth
>>>> of bonds and fire protection will come via a new rural fire station
>>>> provided by Hawkins. Instead of grumbling about recalls I think we
>>>> should be saying thanks guys, job well done!
>>>>
>>>> g
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>>>> To: <london at moscow.com>; <rhayes at turbonet.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 12:18 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Hawkins Mall and Moscow
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Visionaires -
>>>>>
>>>>> Crank up your speakers and watch/listen to Wayne Krauss . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> "Behind Closed Doors"
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uziWdh9MfjI
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>> R-
>>>>>> I agree with your concern and your indignation.
>>>>>> I thought these GMA council candidates were supposed to bring "common
>>>>> sense"
>>>>>> to Moscow.
>>>>>> Now we Moscow taxpayers are financing sprawl in Whitman County.
>>>>>> Disgusting
>>>>>> BL
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "roger hayes" <rhayes at turbonet.com>
>>>>>> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 7:25 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Hawkins Mall and Moscow
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Dear Moscow taxpayers and business owners,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > It appears the city of Moscow will provide water, sewer, and most
>>>>>> > likely police and fire services to the proposed Hawkins development
>>>>>> > which is slated to be built just across the border in Washington.
>>>>>> > Who
>>>>>> > will benefit by this? Hawkins, regional developers and Whitman
>>>>>> > county.
>>>>>> > The losers will be Moscow businesses and Moscow taxpayers.
>>>>>> > If this plan comes to fruition, we will be exporting our tax dollars
>>>>>> > to
>>>>>> > Whitman county, shipping the profits of local business to another
>>>>>> > state, while reducing Moscow's tax base, AND increasing the demand
>>>>>> > on
>>>>>> > our city's infrastructure. How much money will Hawkins agree to pay
>>>>>> > Moscow to mitigate the destructive consequences this megamall will
>>>>>> > have
>>>>>> > on our city?
>>>>>> > With the exception of Tom Lamar, the city council voted against the
>>>>>> > best interests of our city and its citizens. Walter Steed said he
>>>>>> > could
>>>>>> > not comment on the negotiations because they were held in "secret."
>>>>>> > Why
>>>>>> > the secrecy? Steed also said "this will not make some people happy."
>>>>>> > Well, when you make a deal which is destructive to the people who
>>>>>> > elected you, it is bound to make them unhappy.
>>>>>> > We need to consider a RECALL!
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Roger Hayes
>>>>>> > Moscow!
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > =======================================================
>>>>>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>> > http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>> > =======================================================
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "People who ridicule others while hiding behind anonymous monikers in
>>>>> chat-
>>>>> room forums are neither brave nor clever."
>>>>>
>>>>> - Latah County Sheriff Wayne Rausch (August 21,
>>>>> 2007)
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>>>> This message was sent by First Step Internet.
>>>>> http://www.fsr.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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