[Vision2020] Fragments of our Lord

[Ted Moffett]

keely wrote in the post below:

This minister is pious, not mentally ill.
-----------------
*http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Contact_(film)#Cast*
**
*Ellie Arroway:* Why did you do it? *Palmer Joss:* Our job was to select
someone to speak for everybody. And I just couldn't in good conscience vote
for a person who doesn't believe in God. Someone who honestly thinks the
other ninety five percent of us suffer from some form of mass delusion.
----------------
Dialog between religious writer and spokesperson Palmer Joss (Matthew
McConaughey) and astronomer Ellie Arroway (Jodie Foster), from the film
"Contact," regarding why Palmer voted to not nominate Arroway to be the
human representative sent in the transport machine the alien intelligence
gave instructions on how to be built in the communication from space Arroway
discovered, suggests that if the minister is mentally ill, then ninety five
percent are also mentally ill, given the percentage of people who believe in
what some atheists consider to be "delusions."  Believing a communion wafer
is in some sense "the body of Christ" is no more incredible than believing
in people rising from the dead three days after death, that the Bible is the
literal perfect word of a super being that created the universe, or that
humans have an eternal soul separate from the body that is sent to
mysterious realms after death (heaven, hell) depending on how virtuous
someone is.

It is a common human need to believe in questionable propositions about the
world and ourselves, in part because there is much about the world humans do
not understand that demands explanation, our awareness of the finality of
death being too much to bear, and the need for belief systems to control and
provide structure to society, regardless of the objective truth or falsehood
of the beliefs involved.  As to when these beliefs become "mental illness"
is a very complex and difficult question, that is often defined by
convention and the demands of social functionality for the individual,
despite the efforts of modern psychiatry to present an objective scientific
model of mental illness.  If someone hears the voice of God too often in a
socially inappropriate context, that interferes with "normal" social
relations or work, they may be declared a schizophrenic and medicated.  If a
minister or a politician declares they are guided directly by the voice of
God, they sometimes lead millions to follow their guidance.

A case could be made that the millions who followed President G. W.
Bush with trust in his religious faith, given W. Bush's fervent religious
voting base that were impressed with his "born again" image, as he led the
US into the invasion of Iraq with WMD propaganda, involved a degree of mass
religious based delusional thinking:

George Bush: 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at
the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a
mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists
in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end
the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."
------------------------------------------
Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett

On 12/26/08, keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
>
> Perhaps the good reverend simply believes that the communion host is a
> symbol of the death and resurrection of Christ, as Christians do, and
> therefore worries about propriety to a degree greater than those who don't
> believe.
>
> Roman Catholics believe that the wafer, sanctified at Mass by the priest,
> somehow "transubstantiates" to become the body of Christ; Lutherans believe
> that the body of Christ is incorporated into the host; others, including
> evangelicals, believe that the wafer is a physical, non-sacred but important
> symbol that represents the work of Christ on the cross and from the tomb.
> Those of the Federal Vision tend to ascribe salvific or near-salvific power
> (meaning "it saves") to communion, and virtually all Christians would deny
> that.
>
> This minister is pious, not mentally ill.
>
> Keely
> http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: deco at moscow.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:32:39 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fragments of our Lord
>
>
> It's hard to say what the good reverend was thinking when he made the
> statement:
>
>  "It doesn't crumb, and I don't like fragments of our Lord scattering all
> over the floor."
>
> Because he is a privileged man, is it the housecleaning part that he
> doesn't like?
>
> Are fragments of our alleged Lord in the form of crackers especially
> difficult to sweep or to vacuum?
>
> Or are these fragments really flesh and blood, and therefore clog and make
> a general mess out of the insides of vacuum cleaners?
>
> Is the good reverend worried that because the alleged Lord has become
> fragmentized that like the king's men dealing with humpty Dumpty, the
> alleged Lord will not be put back together again?  But doesn't the same
> problem arise when people eat these fragments that are allegedly part of the
> body of the alleged Lord?  Don't some parts of these fragments become parts
> of bodies, or alternatively end up in sewer lagoons?  Wouldn't it be a much
> more formidable task to reassemble these ingested fragments to reconstitute
> the alleged Lord than working with fragments that are just sweepings?
>
> Or does the good reverend have a much deeper problem distinguishing fantasy
> from reality, and therefore in need the services of a competent mental
> health professional?
>
> Puzzled,
>
> W.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ralph Nielsen <nielsen at uidaho.edu>
> *To:* errancy at iierrancy.com
> *Sent:* Friday, December 26, 2008 6:33 AM
> *Subject:* Fragments of our Lord
>
>
> NIELSEN QUOTATION OF THE DAY: The New York Times
>
>
> "It doesn't crumb, and I don't like fragments of our Lord scattering all
> over the floor."
>
> THE REV. BOB DIETEL, about communion wafers manufactured by the Cavenaugh
> Company in Greenville, R.I.
>
>
>
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