[Vision2020] Shoes thrown at President Bush

Fri Dec 19 21:37:56 PST 2008

Since so many people, Donovan, whose "only crime is being . . . poor" have been presumed solely on that basis to be "obvious criminals," I'm puzzled that you don't find Sunil's work to be important for a world of justice, truth, and equality.  I agree with you that society hasn't shown proper concern for the elderly, disabled, and poor, but criticizing, much less eliminating, effective legal representation for the outcast, underprivileged, and oppressed hardly seems consistent.

The only real consistency I see in your argument is your unyielding dislike of Sunil, which not only doesn't do a lot to confirm your concern for the poor, but does, actually, confirm your inability to drop an attack once you've started it.  

Keely
http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/

> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:22:43 -0800
> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com; sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Shoes thrown at President Bush
> 
> Donovan
> 
> Latah has thousands of people whose only crime is being elderly, having a disability or being poor that live a much lower quality of life because state, local, and federal laws regarding their rights are ignored on a daily basis and there is scarcely a lawyer to defend their constitutional and legal rights. 
> 
> Yet, there are lawyers lined up around the corner, bidding on an opportunity to defend and free known criminals, sex offenders, and the like. 
> 
> And this, as many will have me believe, is all because the common lawyer believes in Justice, Truth, and Equality?
> 
> Guess you must all think me naïve then for thinking it hogwash. If we had a justice system that worked, it would be the obvious criminals struggling to find representation for their apparent crimes, and true victims of society with lawyers flocking to them. 
> 
> Until we ask why, and demand a satisfactory answer, it will never change.
> 
> I too believe that there are Constitutional principles that may lead some lawyers to defend the truly guilty-- I won’t quarrel with that argument. But what system we have now is twisted. And I think it is very much because we hold getting a criminal off a crime with higher regard than that of addressing the issues of quality of life for all members of our society.  
> 
> Sunil boasts of his assistance to his neighbor by shoveling their sidewalk. Yet, I ask, what of my neighbor who cannot use the sidewalk because it is not wide enough for his wheelchair? 
> 
> There are too many “noble” lawyers flocking to defend those we know to be guilty and not enough to protect those we know to be innocent. 
> 
> Sunil might claim to be able to sleep at night regardless of what I think, but the rest of us have to sleep with the doors locked because of what he does during the day. 
> 
> Our principles and understandings of what is right and wrong should be questioned when they result in the innocent being continuously victimized, ignored, and under represented while the criminals are continuously are defended, over represented, and released back into our community. 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Donovan 
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Fri, 12/19/08, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Shoes thrown at President Bush
> > To: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 5:21 PM
> > Chas,
> > 
> > Most of my new clients are accused, not convicted. I do
> > very little appellate work.  Under my public defender
> > contract, and most in the state, felony appeals are handled
> > by the Appellate PD office in Boise, run by Moscow's own
> > Molly Huskey.  They do excellent work and are a great
> > resource for us,
> > always willing to help out. I do get appointed to some Post
> > Conviction Petition cases, but not very many of those come
> > in.  Those are almost always filed by prisoners, and once
> > filed PDs are appointed to represent them.
> > 
> > Almost all of my current convicted clients are on
> > probation, or are on the retained jurisdiction program in
> > the prison system (the 'rider' program, sometimes
> > called the boot camp program); if the latter succeed, they
> > will be placed on probation.  I continue to represent them
> > while they are on probation, and it's always my hope I
> > won't have to see them again, as that will mean they are
> > succeeding on probation.
> > 
> > Immediately after reading Donovan's post, which I will
> > try not to describe, I read a post on a criminal defense
> > listserve to which I belong.  I won't identify the
> > poster, but this is what he said about why we do what we do:
> > 
> > "the reason for our organization is for all of us to
> > know we are not
> > alone in the battles we engage in day in and day out.  that
> > there are
> > many criminal defense lawyers in idaho all of whom try to
> > provide
> > a voice to the segment of our society who are voiceless and
> > powerless, who are the left behind and left out and we are
> > just trying
> > to provide them with a small bit of dignity and respect. we
> > continue to
> > fight for their rights, for justice and for their freedom.
> > that's the
> > reason for the organization."
> > 
> > I think that describes what I aspire to, far better than I
> > could have said.  Many of my clients grew up in horrific
> > environments, and continue to live in poverty.  There's
> > no shortage of people ready and willing to judge them, prior
> > to any finding or admission of guilt.  We are here because
> > they too have the right to representation, and the right to
> > challenge the state on their behalf. People may not like it,
> > but they get to have someone give a damn for them.
> > 
> > I'm a public defender because I believe that everyone
> > is entitled to counsel under our Constitution.  Any thinking
> > person ought to be able to understand that the right to
> > counsel is meaningless if people are not willing to
> > represent them; certainly thinking people have made that
> > point here today.  I will not pretend for a minute to be
> > some SuperLawyer, and some of my clients sitting in the pen
> > will agree.  There are several criminal defense lawyers in
> > town that I know are better than I am.  But I hope I always
> > do my best for my clients, regardless of what they are
> > charged with, and no matter what my personal view of the
> > evidence is.   It's the exception when I can't see
> > some humanity in them; there are very few that I haven't
> > appreciated in some way.
> > 
> > If Donovan thinks I should do something else, that's
> > his opinion.  I haven't lost much sleep over it. I
> > won't pretend to understand how he can decide that I
> > should not do work that I choose because I believe in
> > principles embedded in our Constitution.  I can't
> > understand how he can accuse me of expediency when I take
> > consistent positions that reflect what I believe to be
> > Constitutional values.  I'm baffled that first he
> > exhorts me to work for the poor, and then libels me for not
> > serving him in the way he finds appropriate.  I'd tell
> > him about the folks whose sidewalks I shovel, but then he
> > might show up in my neighborhood.
> > 
> > Sunil
> > Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:33:06 +0000
> > Subject: Re: Re: Re: [Vision2020] Shoes thrown at President
> > Bush
> > From: chasuk at gmail.com
> > To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com;
> > sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; chasuk at gmail.com
> > 
> > On Dec 19, 2008 3:07pm, Donovan Arnold
> > <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Your statement, "Does this mean that only the
> > stupid and incapable should become public defenders?",
> > can only assume that anyone with lesser talent of Sunil is
> > "incapable and stupid." I disagree with that
> > assessment. There are plenty of other competent lawyer's
> > that are not as good as Sunil.
> > 
> > And:
> > 
> > > I think there are more noble causes in life to fight
> > for than the release of a slew of convicted serial child
> > molesters.
> > 
> > Sunil works with both the accused and the convicted,
> > although I imagine that he spends more time with the former
> > than the latter.  Hopefully, Sunil will enlighten us on that
> > point.
> > 
> > So the accused don't deserve the best defense possible?
> >  Or is it only the convicted who deserve a second-rate
> > defense?  If Sunil happens to think -- as I hope he does --
> > that we are all equal under the law, then I wonder how he
> > reconciles giving his best on days that he represents the
> > accused, and giving his second-best on days that he
> > represents the convicted?
> > 
> > Comments, Sunil?
> > 
> > > If I was a good lawyer, wanting to do good, freeing
> > child molesters and criminals back into my community would
> > not be a first cause I would champion.
> > 
> > Sunil might feel that defending the unjustly accused --
> > possibly from the death penalty or a lifetime of
> > incarceration -- is as important as plowing snow.
> > 
> > His clients should understand when he tells them:
> > "Look, I know that the attorney replacing me isn't
> > nearly as good as I am, but he is competent, I swear!  But I
> > need to use my talents on nobler causes like widening
> > sidewalks and affordable housing.  Say hello to your wife
> > and kids for me when you get out of prison."
> > 
> > Of course, all of the causes you listed are genuinely
> > important.  I'm not mocking them.
> > 
> > Each and every one of us could be doing more to make the
> > world a better place, and Sunil is already doing more than I
> > am, or will likely ever do.
> > 
> > Are you sure that you are qualified to throw
> > stones?=======================================================
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> >  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
> >                http://www.fsr.net                       
> >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> 
> 
>       
> 
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet, 
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>                http://www.fsr.net                       
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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