[Vision2020] condemning rape

g. crabtree jampot at roadrunner.com
Sun Apr 20 17:57:19 PDT 2008

"Now, if Warren Jeffs wishes to relocate his FLDS "church" and its
followers to Yemen, upon completion of the multitude of trials and
potential subsequent punishments, I would have no problem with it."

I am in awe. It seems to me you have just done a far better job of 
reinforcing Dale's point than anything I, or anyone from the right minded 
side of the slate could have.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
To: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] condemning rape

>I agree with you 100%,keely.
> Further more, and something that His Comb-Overness failed to gather from
> the article on his blog on what must obviously be a slow-news day (even
> for Blight-Mind), the court (that convened and sentenced the offender to
> pay $250 in compensation) took place in Yemen.  Even I, with my degree
> from one of them gubmint skools, know that Yemen is outside the Nifty
> Fifty (USA), and therefor not subject to our laws.
> The Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints (FLDS) compound is conveniently
> located well within the jursdiction of of one of our state courts, and is
> therefor bound to that jurisdiction's laws, much similar to
> another "church" management here in Moscow (oops, bad example).  You
> following me, dale?
> Now, if Warren Jeffs wishes to relocate his FLDS "church" and its
> followers to Yemen, upon completion of the multitude of trials and
> potential subsequent punishments, I would have no problem with it.
> One other thing, little guy . . .  The FLDS compund is NOT part of the
> Mormon church (the FLDS under Warren Jeffs separated from the Mormon
> churcha a long time ago), as you so knowlingly claim in your rag, another
> fact that I, as a public-school educated Intolerista, ascertained from TV
> news and local newspapers, just to reflect on a couple more sources you
> might consider before posting any more of your unwanted opinion to that
> flea-ridden rag you call a blog.
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>> Visionaires,
>> The Everlasting Blogstalker, Dale Courtney, laments today on his
> Right-Mind>  blog that Moscow's liberals are quick to jump on the
> bandwagon of
> disappro> val of the recent revelations that young girls in the FLDS
> polygamist cult
>> in West Texas are routinely forced into sexual relationships with older
> men>  who believe that these polygamous "celestial marriages" are
> essential to
> t> he practice of their faith, while remaining silent about things like
> young
>> girls being forced to "marry" older men in some Muslim cultures.  Dale
> beli> eves that the shameful tolerance his liberal foes exhibit toward the
> behavi> or of some Muslims is hypocritical in light of their disgust over
> offshoot-> Mormon group practices, and he, like a good "Christian"
> libertarian man of
>> chest, must make note of it.  It seems that we liberals just can't muster
> a> ny disapproval of Islam, so busy are we, I suppose, hating groups that
> call>  themselves Christian.
>> Certainly Dale's worldview is energized by the thought that he and his
> pals>  are witnesses to the persecution of the Church from their vantage
> point
> of>  those suffering under it.  It's a silly assertion, of course, as is
> his
> sm> ug denouncement of feminized, morally bankrupt liberals who pick and
> choose>  their objects of outrage from a tortured position of ethical
> spinelessness> ..  I am a liberal; I know of no one, liberal or
> conservative, who isn't
> dis> gusted by the reality of adult men who engage in sex with children.
> I'm
> no> t aware of anyone who thinks that religion excuses the horrors that 
> men
> vis> it upon their victims, whether that religion is a perversion of
> Christianit> y or a perversion of Islam.  Because most of the people I
> know are
> rational> , decent people, they are angered by child rape and outraged
> that it can
> be> , and is, committed as a sort of religious expression.  Atheists and
> the
> re> ligious are united in believing that no God would be honored by
> inflicting
>> horror on the little ones he created.
>> I don't know if Muhammed had a sexual relationship with a nine-year-old
> gir> l, as Dale asserts, just as I don't know if Joseph Smith slept with
> underag> e girls.  My not being Muslim or Mormon, or part of any group
> that claims
> t> o be the "true expression" of either, has nothing to do with the sexual
> sin>  of the men each faith reveres as prophets.  I am much more concerned
> about>  my own faith and the men who claim it, and who, as Christians,
> perpetuate
>> patriarchy, hierarchy, power, manipulation and sexism in their homes,
> churc> hes, and relationships.   If, for example, there were a Christian
> church
> in>  town that had witnessed one or two specific instances of their men
> preying>  on young children or teenage girls, I would expect that that
> church would
>> reflect on any connection between the rape committed by their young
> student> s of patriarchy and power, sexism and sexuality, and the
> practices and
> teac> hing that the predators received from their teachers.  I would
> expect that
>> that church would publicly repent of any gender-based arrogance,
> hierarchy,>  or wielding of power it had exhibited.  I would hope that its
> leaders
> woul> d examine a theology that has as its origin the reality of a post-
> Fall
> seiz> ing of ungodly power and descent into violence, rather than the
> redemptive,>  radical justice and equality ushered in by the Savior they
> claim to
> worshi> p.  I would pray that such a church would see that its elevation
> of male
> po> wer and privilege, its defense of patriarchy, its practice of gender
> hierar> chy and unilateral submission, and its defensive clinging to the
> ways of
> th> e world and not the fruit of the Spirit are sinful, reflecting the
> depotism>  of evil and not the gentleness of Christlike love.  I would
> expect that.
>> I would be disappointed.
>> And so I will lead the charge, if that is indeed  what Dale's asking for,
> b> y announcing that this middle-aged, progressive, evangelical homemaker,
> and>  everyone she knows, thinks men who sleep with girls are evil.
> There.
> Now>  that the totality of liberal condemnation of rape and pedophilia has
> been
>> thusly offered to this erstwhile elder, let's see if he and his other
> patri> archal heads of household pause and examine if the perpetuation of
> sexual
> v> iolence on the weak in the name of religion has more to do with bad
> theolog> y, teaching, and practice than with the perceived indifference of
> Moscow's
>> liberals.  It could be the start of an incredible spiritual renewal,
> revolu> tionary in scope and profound in effect.  Or, Dale could just
> write this
> of> f as the emotional blather of someone who just doesn't know her place,
> a
> po> sition that is probably a lot easier to undertake while enjoying the
> Sabbat> h with other puny patriarchs.
>> I guess we'll see . . .
>> Keely
>> _________________________________________________________________
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> ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr> esh_getintouch_042008>
> "People who ridicule others while hiding behind anonymous monikers in 
> chat-
> room forums are neither brave nor clever."
> - Latah County Sheriff Wayne Rausch (August 21,
> 2007)
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