[Vision2020] Idaho Daycare Centers (was "End of Legislative Session Summary from Rep. Trail")

Mon Apr 7 11:43:53 PDT 2008

"Donovan" wrote:

"thanks for pointing out this logic with that emotional appeal . . ."  regarding my raising the issue of government regulation of daycare and the frightening scenario we see being played out at the cult compound in West Texas.  As Dale Courtney has done in the past, he does again, ascribing my arguments to the bane of all real men -- emotion.

Golly, it's hard typing this with my fingers all bloated.  How I wish I could just curl up on the couch, eat a box of chocolates, and have a good cry over "Steel Magnolias."   Because it seems that Donovan, if not his doppelganger, has me all figured out -- I just get all sappy and passionate about kids 'n stuff, and, breathless at the thought of another emotional storm brewing, I wail and bitch and moan for protection for victims of violence, drugs, patriarchy, and indifference.  I can't wait 'til next week, when I can get back into my skinny jeans and face the world with the resolute sternness and reason of the non-hormonal.

The Latah Health issue is a red herring, and I'm afraid I'm too caught up in the frenzy of "One Life To Live" to comment beyond what I did months ago.  Pity.  I think Donovan and/or his scribe truly care to discuss poverty, government, faith and society, but darn -- the dog just ate my bunny slippers, and I feel a good cry coming on.
Keely

Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 23:38:07 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Idaho Daycare Centers (was "End of Legislative Session Summary from Rep. Trail")
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; idahotom at hotmail.com; moscowresident at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com

Keely,     Your argument seems to be that it is because of a lack of government regulation of daycare in Idaho that religious cults are able to sexually victimize young girls in Laredo. Texas? I see the connection now, thanks for pointing out this logic with that emotional appeal.     And the fact that I oppose telling mothers and care providers they don't know better than lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians that have never worked day one inside a care facility clearly means I am uncaring oaf, that the only reason I worked in a care facility was for the whopping $7 an hour wage.      Now, if I stand incorrect, please  weren't you and the other liberals on this forum in favor of shutting down Latah County's only existing care facility for the elderly and indigent, Latah Health Services, and
 selling it for $1?     Wasn't it in fact, over regulation by the federal government that shut it down? Tell me, Keely, with all your years of work in care facilities, how many people is Latah Health Services helping now as a result of good people that created all those many government regulations?     How many day care facilities will be able to function at an affordable rate to many parents when you pile another Bible sized book of government regulations and tax them to enforce it?     I think the people of Idaho are doing just fine with the current laws and people we have now. It is already illegal to harm, injury, or commit sexual acts against a minor in Idaho. And we have good people in this state that are doing everything humanly possible to raise good people, and I think they are doing a damn good job.      You think more, and bigger government is always the
 answer. I don't. I think more common sense, and letting people be people is what makes us better.      Best Regards,     Donovan     
keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:      Donovan, 

First, I write this and address it to you despite the fact that I think somebody is co-opting your identity, which is impolite at best and a violation of the commandment against "bearing false witness."   For fun, look up the Greek verb "authentein."

Nonetheless, I find your anti-statist argument here utterly jaw-dropping in its inability to consider that the absence of these controls has and would continue to place children in
 harm's way.  Even more disturbing is that you evidently don't care.   You can't really believe that the State's only interest in this legislation is to steal your children and indoctrinate them in the ways of Government Evil, and you surely can't think that the payoff is minimal, protecting children now, even if they are other people's.  Even "other people" who rely on daycare, much to your evident disdain.  

Children are precious, and sometimes families fail them.  Sometimes daycare facilities fail children and parents both, and sometimes children are valued enough by the elected representatives in our government that they band together to try to protect them.   Sometimes, though, the irritability and disdain of the citizenry allows children to remain at risk.  And so, Donovan, that puts us back to those halcyon days of old 150 years ago when families raised their own kids without the interference of the State. 

An idea of how that might look is taking place now in West Texas, where more than 150 children, mostly young girls, were taken by the government this weekend from the Reorganized LDS-offshoot polygamist cult they had been born into.  Prior to the authorities rescuing the children, women of legal age shared one husband.  So did girls -- some in their early teens, some bearing a child nearly every year to men twice or three times their age.  The families existed in a closed, self-contained compound with no real contact with the outside world, an ideal religious haven for the patriarchs thereof, but an absolute hell for the women and girls and babies.  Don't tell me the women "chose" anything, and don't suggest their culpability in the rape of their daughters.  Blame evil, and recognize it in the men who were able to wreak havoc on the lives of those under them because nobody was going to be able to interfere.  Violence within families is
 despicable, and it's made even worse by the mind-numbing claims of the perpetrators that the only help available is, in their reality, no help at all -- just an evil Force eager to visit perdition on those vulnerable ones under their care.

And the women and the girls and the boys and the babies die.

I'll save my outrage for when the government decides that I must place my children in daycare, or that I can only use cloth diapers, or that teaching them from the Old Testament is forbidden.  But spare me your outrage when government wants, however imperfectly, to protect children from those who would harm them.

Keely

      Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 19:50:44 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
To: idahotom at hotmail.com; moscowresident at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Idaho Daycare Centers (was "End of Legislative Session Summary from Rep. Trail")

  Hansen, 
    I wonder how come the people of Idaho were able to raise their children for over 150 years without all these government regulations? Which child care facility in Idaho do you think needs more regulation?     Who, exactly, is going to pay for the enforcement and monitoring off all these new government imposed regulations for parents on how to raise their children?      The $45 criminal background won't keep you from a lawsuit because it doesn't catch 99% of sexual predators applying for positions of authority and trust over other people.      All these regulations are going to do is substantially raise the cost of child care without raising the standard of care. Who is this going to help? Certainly not parents or the children. We really do not need the government lawyers telling care providers how many times they must wipe Johnny's runny nose,
 and with what kind of hypoallergenic chemical hand cleaners they must purchase and from which government approved facilities as we do nursing homes. Parents cannot afford that large of a government regulation and enforcement.      It will be a sad, sad, sad, day in Idaho when the decisions of child rearing is pulled from the mothers, parents, and caregivers, and given to the State.         Best Regards,     Donovan     

Tom Hansen <idahotom at hotmail.com> wrote:      You really ought to check things out before you click the "send" key,
 Donnie.

Reasons for enacting SB1376 (Relating to Daycare Programs) are stipulated at the beginning of the bill:

http://www3.idaho.gov/oasis/S1376.html

"to provide a minimum daycare operator age; 

to revise an age for criminal history checks; 

to revise license fees; 

to revise required fire safety equipment; to provide for child-staff ratios and requirements;

to revise health standards; 

to require daycare facilities to comply with certain health standards; 

to provide additional crimes precluding eligibility for a license; 

to provide grounds for the denial, suspension or revocation of a daycare facility license; 

to remove requirements for availability for inspection of a fire inspection certificate and criminal
history check; 

to permit inspection
 of family daycare homes; 

to require family daycare home providers to comply with certain criminal history background check provisions; 

to remove a group daycare facility election for compliance with certain provisions; 

to provide a daycare facility a grace period to obtain a license; 

to remove a criminal sanction for operating a group daycare facility without obtaining, or after denial of, certain certificates; 

to provide criminal sanctions for operating a family daycare home without obtaining, or after failure to pass, a criminal history background check; 

to provide the duty of the county prosecuting attorney to prosecute violations regarding family daycare homes; 

to remove a provision regarding state or political subdivision affirmance with certain provisions for group daycare facilities to which a certificate is issued; 

to revise training hour requirements;

to provide certain limitations on on-premises training; 

and to require an on-premises adult with certain certification."

--------------------------------

So, you see, Donnie - The adage "If it works, don't fix it" would apply if Idaho actually had such a policy concerning small daycare centers, which it doesn't.

Please explain to us how any of the above reasons are a form of government intrusion into our lives.  Should we wait until something happens (now, there is a scary suggestion for some unlucky child and family) before we actually do something. 

Here's another adage for your scrap book, Donnie:  "You don't have to be sick to get better."

Paying the $45 for a background check would seem considerably cheaper for a small daycare center than the potentially exorbitant amount attached to a civil lawsuit or criminal trial.

      Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 12:17:22 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
To: moscowresident at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] End of Legislative Session Summary from Rep. Trail

  I am sure there are differences between the work I do with the elderly and disabled, and that of child care, but I imagine there are many similarities.     My first complaint about background checks is that they really aren't background checks. They just check to make sure someone doesn't have a conviction as a sex offender, which is pretty easy to check without paying the $45 fee.      My second complaint is that more often than not, it is a huge financial burden for people making $7 an hour to pay $45 for every day care center they apply for and having to wait one to two weeks for approval before they can start working. When you make $7 an hour, it is difficult to
 afford that burden, it was for me.     3) This is a massive intrusion and expansion of government  with with no indication that it is needed. The assumption here, and I think a false one, is that it will improve the safety and well being of the children by having a series of regulations to tie the hands of the child care providers. There are already a large of laws and regulations on the books.     Having worked in the nursing home environment, I can tell how self contradicting and harmful over regulation from the government can be. I trust child care providers over the government lawyers and regulators that probably have never seen the inside of a daycare, much less worked in one. From personal experience with the Moscow Day Care and UI's Daycare centers, I can tell you they are excellent places to place your children if you can get in, and they didn't need government over regulation to get that way.
      No doubt, we may someday need to expand government's role in raising children. But as long as parents are still doing a good job, we shouldn't invite the government in to fix something that isn't yet broken.      Best Regards,     Donovan

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