[Vision2020] Thought Police: Re:Senator Larry Craig ChallengesGuilty Plea

[Sue Hovey]

Well, I would hope hitting on a woman in a public place isn't really assumed to be normal male behavior either.  And isn't publically propositioning a woman for consensual sexual contact a crime in most states?   Maybe it shouldn't be, but that's a question for another forum.  

Sue
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Donovan Arnold 
  To: Paul Rumelhart ; Tom Hansen 
  Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com ; 'Donovan Arnold' 
  Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Thought Police: Re:Senator Larry Craig ChallengesGuilty Plea


  I think Craig was trying to have relations with another man. However, when is propositioning a man for consensual sexual contact a crime?

  How many men would be arrested and locked up for hitting on a woman in a public place? Is it just worse because same sex relationships are not equal or "normal"?

  I think Craig made it clear to the officer that he wanted to engage in sexual activity with him, but they did not actually have sex in a public place. Craig may have wanted to take him with him or rent a room. We don't know. 

  I think if police officers want to bust people for having sex in a public restroom, they should catch them in the act. If they want to limit or eliminate sexual activity in the restroom, they should post a warning sign indicating that place is under male police surveillance and any illegal activity will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. 

  But again, I ask, was the police officer sitting on the scraper for hours with his pants up or down? Either way, it would seem like an odd thing to do, and could be seen as an invitation for people to look in and see why a guy is sitting in a stall with pants up/down for hours. 

  Secondly, if I really had to use the stall, and a guy was taking one up, sitting in there with his pants up, for hours, I would be staring through the crack too, banging on the door, trying to get him up and out of there so I could use it for its intended purpose. A guy blocking a crapper needlessly is highly unpopular, especially if you are late for a connecting flight or had a mean burrito for lunch. 

  Best,

  Donovan

  Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
    I've posted on this before, but I might as well do it again, I guess.

    I don't think that Senator Craig should be punished by the law for 
    something as stupid as bumping another man's foot, looking through a 
    crack in a door, or moving his hand under the partition. Couldn't the 
    officer have done whatever was expected next, which I presume is to come 
    over to his stall, and wait for him to make an undeniable request for 
    sex (verbally or bodily) before arresting him?

    As for the peeping through the door thing, am I the only person around 
    here that will sometimes stare into space when I'm thinking about 
    something deeply, only to "come to" with the realization that I've been 
    staring at someone the entire time? I'm not saying I do this every day, 
    but I've done it before. I can't be the only one. I'm not saying that is 
    what happened to Craig, but it's definitely possible.

    I can also see an occasion where someone might want to plead guilty to 
    something they didn't do in an attempt to avoid certain people finding 
    out about it. That doesn't speak too highly of him if he did that, but a 
    guilty plea to a misdemeanor doesn't mean the person did it absolutely. 
    If you think he is the kind of guy that solicits sex in a public 
    bathroom, why is it so unbelievable that he might have lied to gain a 
    perceived advantage?

    Paul

    Tom Hansen wrote:
    >
    > Jeesh, Arnie!
    >
    > Here is a link to the police complaint, police reports, and the audio 
    > file of Senator Craig's police interview (with transcript).
    >
    > http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0828071craig1.html
    >
    > Nope. No wiggle room here, try as you might.
    >
    > Seeya round town, Moscow.
    >
    > Tom Hansen
    > Moscow, Idaho
    >
    > "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The 
    > college students are not very active in local elections (thank 
    > goodness!)."
    >
    > - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com 
    > [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Donovan Arnold
    > *Sent:* Thursday, September 27, 2007 7:21 PM
    > *To:* Sunil Ramalingam
    > *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
    > *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Senator Larry Craig Challenges Guilty Plea
    >
    > I have a question here. Was the cop sitting on the toilet for hours 
    > with his pants up or down?
    >
    > Think about the oddity of either situation for that moment.
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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