[Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered

[Sunil Ramalingam]

Wrong.  I absolutely would make the identical argument.  I'm talking about 
the Constitution, not my own preferences.  And isince you missed it, most of 
my condemnation here is for the person I voted for in the last election, not 
Bush.

Sunil


>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
>Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:51:43 -0700
>
>I very much doubt that you would be making the same argument if the guy was 
>a raving Bush supporter who refused to stand down after his time was up and 
>only wanted to hold forth, not ask a specific question.
>
>g
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Sunil Ramalingam" 
><sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 6:25 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
>
>
>>Paul,
>>
>>The possibility that the student was looking to 'shake things up' is, if
>>true, irrelevant.  He was at a political forum engaging in political 
>>speech.
>>  That's protected by the First Amendment.  None of us have to like it; 
>>it's
>>protected speech.  I wouldn't say there was a 'conspiracy' to shut his 
>>views
>>down, but someone made the wrong decision to shut down what was clearly a
>>dialog between him and Kerry.
>>
>>I won't defend the decision to taser him.  I think it's abominable.  They
>>shouldn't have been touching him, let alone choosing between options such 
>>as
>>electrocuting him or dislocating his shoulder or breaking his wrist.  They
>>were state actors shutting down free speech, and they shouldn't have been
>>doing anything of the sort.  They should have allowed him to exercise his
>>rights.
>>
>>It would be different if he showed up and did this in your living room; 
>>but
>>this was a political event.  There are few places where political speech 
>>is
>>more appropriate than in this setting.
>>
>>You're right that Kerry didn't initiate anything.  Instead of trying to 
>>stop
>>this, he did nothing but drone on.  He could have told the cops there was 
>>no
>>need for their action.  He could have reminded them that this is America,
>>and that citizens are allowed to question politicians, and that 
>>politicians
>>answer to the People.  What a chance to show what free speech means!  But
>>instead he showed once again his innate ability to miss an opportunity;
>>oddly enough, that was the thesis of one of the student's questions.
>>
>>Sunil
>>
>>
>>>From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>>>To: Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
>>>CC: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>,  
>>>vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
>>>Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:34:15 -0700
>>>
>>>I think there are a couple of things going on here.
>>>
>>>The first was a decision by the police to remove him from the microphone
>>>and from the vicinity.  The second was to taser him when they did.  I'm
>>>unsure about the first decision.  I have little pity for him, because I
>>>think he was looking for an avenue to "shake things up".  That's just my
>>>opinion.  I also don't think he was removed from the podium because of 
>>>any
>>>specific thing he said.  I don't think he was removed because he was
>>>upsetting Kerry, either.  I think he was removed because he was 
>>>recognized
>>>as someone who disrupts public events.  I would rather that they let him
>>>finish his question.  However, I don't think he wanted to be allowed to
>>>finish his question, I think he wanted to make a scene.  I don't see a
>>>conspiracy to shut this man's views down.  If he had asked them calmly 
>>>and
>>>politely, he would probably have been fine.
>>>
>>>The decision to taser him when they did I can somewhat agree with.  They
>>>were removing him from the room, and he would not calm down and submit to
>>>that action.  When they had him on the ground, presumably trying to get
>>>cuffs on him, he wouldn't stop shouting and wouldn't cooperate.  So they
>>>tasered him, after warning him they were going to taser him several 
>>>times,
>>>in order to shake him up long enough to get control of him.  I think they
>>>chose to do that rather than to do something more damaging, such as
>>>dislocating a shoulder or breaking a wrist.  I say that I can "somewhat"
>>>agree with the decision because I'm not an expert in restraining someone.
>>>Perhaps they had other less headline-making options at their disposal.
>>>
>>>This is all my opinion from watching one of the videos on youtube that
>>>shows the arrest, and from reading comments on various websites on this
>>>guy's history.
>>>
>>>I also think this had nothing to do with Kerry.  He was willing to answer
>>>the questions, and he didn't initiate anything.
>>>
>>>Paul
>>>
>>>Ted Moffett wrote:
>>>>Sunil et. al.
>>>>  Sorry, I had not read the story at the "Counterpunch" link you 
>>>>offered.
>>>>And given some of the responses to this thread, I wonder how many others
>>>>read the story.  I found out what the student was questioning Kerry 
>>>>about
>>>>(the Palast book and the "stolen" election of 2004, etc.) from other
>>>>sources.  The more I find out about what happened in this incident, the
>>>>more disturbing the police response appears.  As the "Counterpunch" 
>>>>story
>>>>headline questions, "Why did Senator John Kerry stand idly by?"  I 
>>>>wonder
>>>>if Kerry has issued any public responses to the coverage of this story 
>>>>in
>>>>the media.
>>>>  Meyer (the tasered student) asked very good questions that need to be
>>>>asked over and over...
>>>>  The questions asked were, according to the "Counterpunch" article:
>>>>  At the conclusion of Kerry's speech, Andrew Meyer, a 21-year old
>>>>journalism student was selected by Senator Kerry to ask a question. 
>>>>Meyer
>>>>held up a copy of BBC investigative reporter Greg Palast's book, Armed
>>>>Madhouse, and asked if Kerry was aware that Palast's investigations
>>>>determined that Kerry had actually won the election.  Why, Meyer asked,
>>>>had Kerry conceded the election so quickly when there were so many 
>>>>obvious
>>>>examples of vote fraud?  Why, Meyer, went on to ask, was Kerry refusing 
>>>>to
>>>>consider Bush's impeachment when Bush was about to initiate another act 
>>>>of
>>>>military aggression, this time against Iran?
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>Ted Moffett
>>>>
>>
>>
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