[Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC

keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com
Sun Sep 16 15:35:18 PDT 2007


Thanks, Bill, for the clarity of your comments.  And a side note to Gary Crabtree:

Trust me on this one.  There's no one on Vision who, in criticizing Christ Church and its relations with the community, needs you to "slow it way down" so that they can grasp your arguments.  Believe me, your points are not so complex as to require terrific effort in grasping them, and they're not cogent or correct enough for any of us to have to work real hard in refuting them.  You might find civil discourse a bit taxing, but I regret that snottiness seems to come so easily for you.  

One thing I've learned in my life is that people who disagree with me are not automatically stupid, and people who agree with me are not automatically brilliant.  Those who fail to see that, however, aren't automatically anything, but damned if they don't somehow end up sounding like the former.  

Coincidence?  I think not.

keely


From: london at moscow.com
To: jampot at roadrunner.com; thansen at moscow.com; pkraut at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:14:48 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC














The Christ Church leadership is committed to buying 
downtown property for "strategic" (Doug Wilson's word) or "political" (my word) 
reasons, not religious ones.  The church wants to take over 
downtown.
Downtown property (Central Business District) may 
be taxed at a common rate with other properties, but each individual downtown 
property is more valuable (and thus pays more property tax) than similar parcels 
located elsewhere.  So, when those downtown parcels are bought by Christ 
Church, Moscow takes a big hit in revenue.
Diluting the Central Business District with 
churches and schools (as is the Christ Church plan) creates a less vibrant 
downtown with fewer businesses and many more parking problems.
BL

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  g. 
  crabtree 
  To: Tom Hansen ; 'Pat Kraut' ; 'vision2020' 
  Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 1:26 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals of 
  Developers of the Palouse LLC
  

  
  OK t, I'll try this one last time and slow 
  it way down for you. We can't be taking "the next step" when it's clear that 
  lesson one has not been properly integrated.
   
  1. Property used for church related activities 
  will be tax exempt whether it's downtown, mid-town, or on the outskirts 
  of our little burg.
   
  2. Property in the CBD is not taxed at a 
  different rate than property anywhere else. The tax loss is the same whether 
  it's downtown, mid-town, or on the outskirts of our little burg.
   
  3. Property owned by a church that is NOT 
  used for church related activities IS taxed, just the same as all other 
  similar properties such as the others that are downtown, mid-town, or on the 
  outskirts of our little burg. A prime example of this would be the space 
  occupied by the restaurant in the NSA building.
   
  4. Property owned by church members that is not 
  used for church related activities is taxed, just the same as all other 
  similar properties such as the others that are downtown, mid-town, or on the 
  outskirts of our little burg. Examples of this would include Bucer's, 
  Hall Closet, and the former Goodwill location. All owned by local hard 
  working, tax paying, law abiding citizens.
   
  5. Having dozens of under utilized buildings is 
  an expense that no small church can afford. Simply from a maintenance stand 
  point it would make no sense to have them lay fallow. This should calm 
  your fears that a local ministry will buy up all of the CBD and eliminate 
  Moscow's tax base.
   
  Thank you for your time, you may now go back 
  to posting photos of the same signs we all drive past every day.
   
  g
  
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: 
    Tom Hansen 
    
    To: 'g. crabtree' ; 'Pat Kraut' ; 'vision2020' 
    Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 7:56 
    AM
    Subject: RE: [Vision2020] principals of 
    Developers of the Palouse LLC
    

    
    Very, very good, g 
    –
     
    Now, let’s move on 
    to the next step, ok?
     
    The key word in 
    central business district is BUSINESS. And, yes, I am going to “fall back” 
    (as you say) on the “T” word (taxes).  
     
    Businesses located 
    in the central business district paying taxes.  That is what helps a 
    community grow.  NOT tax-exempt churches, schools, etc. etc., all 
    managed by the same piss ant group of sock puppets with nothing better to do 
    than whine about ever-increasing property taxes that become the burden of 
    local hard-working, tax-paying, law-abiding 
    proprietors.
     
    As much as I would 
    love to sit here and explain reality to you, there is an election coming up 
    and I have miles to go before I sleep.
     
    
    Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom 
    Hansen
Moscow, 
    Idaho

"We're a town of 
    about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college students are not very 
    active in local elections (thank goodness!)."

- Dale Courtney (March 
    28, 2007) 
    
    
    
    
    
    From: g. 
    crabtree [mailto:jampot at roadrunner.com] 
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 7:26 
    AM
To: Tom Hansen; 'Pat 
    Kraut'; 'vision2020'
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals of 
    Developers of the Palouse LLC
     
    
    Question, 
    th
    
     
    
    Of all the property in the 
    central business district, what percent is owned by CC? One percent? Maybe 
    two? 
    
     
    
    Lets follow your query to its 
    logical end. CC owns fifty to sixty percent of the CBD. So what? Please 
    don't fall back on the property tax issue since we all know that church 
    property, used for church purposes will be tax exempt no matter where it is, 
    downtown or elsewhere. If it's owned by the church or its members and 
    used for commercial purposes it will be taxed the same as any other parcel. 
    
    
     
    
    With this being the case, why 
    would it matter if they were to own every square inch of downtown Moscow? What exactly 
    would be the down side? The maddening rectal itch you might receive from 
    such a turn of events really doesn't 
    count.
    
     
    
    g
    
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      
      
      From: Tom Hansen 
      
      
      To: 'Pat Kraut' ; 
      'vision2020' 
      
      
      Sent: 
      Saturday, September 15, 2007 6:50 AM
      
      Subject: Re: 
      [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse 
      LLC
      
       
      Question, PK 
      –
       
      Of ALL the 
      churches of ALL the countries throughout the world, which ONE owns (and is 
      buying up) property in the central business district of Moscow, Idaho?
       
      
      
      Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom 
      Hansen
Moscow, 
      Idaho

“I’ll just speak 
      for our church, in Christ Church.  If I found out that a 
      member of our church or a church officer was lying to non-believers in the 
      community, as a way to get by or protect themself or protect his 
      reputation, yes, he’d be disciplined.”

- Doug Wilson (January 31, 
      2007)
      
      
      
      
      From: 
      vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] 
      On Behalf Of Pat 
      Kraut
Sent: Friday, 
      September 14, 2007 10:19 PM
To: vision2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals 
      of Developers of the Palouse LLC
       
      
        And, I would ask if you are 
        aware of how much property is owned by groups or individuals in this 
        area that have nothing to do with CC? The catholic church? The Mormons? 
        The whoever?? This is persecution of one group against whom you have a 
        personal vendetta and has nothing to do with the community as a 
        whole...get over it! 07 11:45 
        AM
      
      
      
      =======================================================
 List 
      services made available by First Step Internet, 
 serving the 
      communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
      
               
      http://www.fsr.net                       
      
          
      mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
  
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: 
    Tom Hansen 
    
    To: 'g. crabtree' ; 'Pat Kraut' ; 'vision2020' 
    Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 7:56 
    AM
    Subject: RE: [Vision2020] principals of 
    Developers of the Palouse LLC
    

    
    Very, very good, g 
    –
     
    Now, let’s move on 
    to the next step, ok?
     
    The key word in 
    central business district is BUSINESS. And, yes, I am going to “fall back” 
    (as you say) on the “T” word (taxes).  
     
    Businesses located 
    in the central business district paying taxes.  That is what helps a 
    community grow.  NOT tax-exempt churches, schools, etc. etc., all 
    managed by the same piss ant group of sock puppets with nothing better to do 
    than whine about ever-increasing property taxes that become the burden of 
    local hard-working, tax-paying, law-abiding 
    proprietors.
     
    As much as I would 
    love to sit here and explain reality to you, there is an election coming up 
    and I have miles to go before I sleep.
     
    
    Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom 
    Hansen
Moscow, 
    Idaho

"We're a town of 
    about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college students are not very 
    active in local elections (thank goodness!)."

- Dale Courtney (March 
    28, 2007) 
    
    
    
    
    
    From: g. 
    crabtree [mailto:jampot at roadrunner.com] 
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 7:26 
    AM
To: Tom Hansen; 'Pat 
    Kraut'; 'vision2020'
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals of 
    Developers of the Palouse LLC
     
    
    Question, 
    th
    
     
    
    Of all the property in the 
    central business district, what percent is owned by CC? One percent? Maybe 
    two? 
    
     
    
    Lets follow your query to its 
    logical end. CC owns fifty to sixty percent of the CBD. So what? Please 
    don't fall back on the property tax issue since we all know that church 
    property, used for church purposes will be tax exempt no matter where it is, 
    downtown or elsewhere. If it's owned by the church or its members and 
    used for commercial purposes it will be taxed the same as any other parcel. 
    
    
     
    
    With this being the case, why 
    would it matter if they were to own every square inch of downtown Moscow? What exactly 
    would be the down side? The maddening rectal itch you might receive from 
    such a turn of events really doesn't 
    count.
    
     
    
    g
    
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      
      
      From: Tom Hansen 
      
      
      To: 'Pat Kraut' ; 
      'vision2020' 
      
      
      Sent: 
      Saturday, September 15, 2007 6:50 AM
      
      Subject: Re: 
      [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse 
      LLC
      
       
      Question, PK 
      –
       
      Of ALL the 
      churches of ALL the countries throughout the world, which ONE owns (and is 
      buying up) property in the central business district of Moscow, Idaho?
       
      
      
      Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom 
      Hansen
Moscow, 
      Idaho

“I’ll just speak 
      for our church, in Christ Church.  If I found out that a 
      member of our church or a church officer was lying to non-believers in the 
      community, as a way to get by or protect themself or protect his 
      reputation, yes, he’d be disciplined.”

- Doug Wilson (January 31, 
      2007)
      
      
      
      
      From: 
      vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] 
      On Behalf Of Pat 
      Kraut
Sent: Friday, 
      September 14, 2007 10:19 PM
To: vision2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals 
      of Developers of the Palouse LLC
       
      
        And, I would ask if you are 
        aware of how much property is owned by groups or individuals in this 
        area that have nothing to do with CC? The catholic church? The Mormons? 
        The whoever?? This is persecution of one group against whom you have a 
        personal vendetta and has nothing to do with the community as a 
        whole...get over it! 07 11:45 
        AM
      
      
      
      =======================================================
 List 
      services made available by First Step Internet, 
 serving the 
      communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
      
               
      http://www.fsr.net                       
      
          
      mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
  
  

  =======================================================
 List 
  services made available by First Step Internet, 
 serving the 
  communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
  
               
  http://www.fsr.net                       
  
          
  mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

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