[Vision2020] And the Count Continues . . .

Tue Oct 30 13:44:50 PDT 2007

If you are too dense or obtuse to Get It, then I truly pity your challenges,
Mr. Crabtree, whether you care or not.

But, just for giggles, let's have some fun, you and I, that's actually based
in fact rather than your narrow and ignorant/uninformed bias, speculation,
or beliefs:  why don't you go back and figure out when the nonsense phrase
"Intolerista" started getting bandied about here in the Viz, all in response
to the fact the Wilson and his ilk didn't like being challenged or disagreed
with.  That's real tolerance for you, Mr. Crabtree:  when Wilson et al don't
like what non-political non-elected ordinary citizens have to say, they
start the name calling, the harassment, the personal attacks, the stalking,
the trespassing, and the threats to folks' livelihoods, etc. with a
vengeance.  And, heaven help the critics who used to be church members
before catching onto the lies and the Kirk's perversions of the Bible  -
they are subjected to a special Kirk created hell in Moscow, and that hell
isn't just created by the Kirk hierarchy.

And, while you're at it, provide links to your voluminous objections to your
buddies' name-calling, harassment, and all the rest.  Include your buddy
Dale's hate blog if you choose . . . that's fine with me.

Also while you're at it, provide links to your extensive list of complaints
about City staff - current and past -- and certain elected officials -
current and past - who decided "Intolerista" was a perfectly acceptable way
to refer to a sizeable non-elected chunk of this community who dare to
disagree with Wilson World.  Get your shorts untwisted, Mr. Crabtree, and
get yourself worked up into a frenzy about extensive ongoing real problems
where the "victims" (since we all know precisely how important it is to
Wilson and the Kirk to wrongly portray themselves as "victims") aren't your
buddies.

Oh, wait . . . I guess you can't do any of that because you are one of the
chief name-callers . . . funny that.

Yes, just as I thought:  you are part of the problem, so it's no great
surprise you refuse to see what's wrong with Glasebrook et al's behavior.
You are nothing if not a Prince of the Double-Standard.  At least Aaron
Ament apologized for his intemperate remark, which is far, far more than I
can say for you and your hate-mongering buddies.

Saundra Lund

Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.

~ Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2007 through life plus
70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside
the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
author.*****

From: g. crabtree [mailto:jampot at roadrunner.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:52 PM
To: Saundra Lund; 'Mark Solomon'; 'Matt Decker'; 'Tom Hansen'; 'Moscow
Vision 2020'
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And the Count Continues . . .

And what deplorable tactics would those be? Mr. Glasebrook (the guy with the
yellow sign, for the benefit of Mr. Hansen) feels strongly that the
incumbent candidates discriminate against his church. I do not agree with
him with regard to Lamar (His track record on council is too short and I
have not heard him make any remarks that would bolster his claim) but, In
the case of Ament and to a lesser extent Pall, I believe that he's right.
Please remember the many anti-CC comments made by Mr. Ament before and
during his campaign. Please recall that before his first city council
meeting had much of a chance of getting off the ground he was attempting to
create problems for NSA. Ms. Pall joined him in forcing unreasonable and
discriminatory parking regulations on the college. Mr. Glasebrook has
numerous reasons to believe what he does and it seems to me that he's well
within his right to complain publicly. The fact that the target of his
antipathy coincides with the GMA's desire to see an improved council does
not mean that they are endorsing his actions or that he speaks for the GMA.

g

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Saundra Lund <mailto:sslund at roadrunner.com>  

To: 'Mark Solomon' <mailto:msolomon at moscow.com>  ; 'Matt
<mailto:mattd2107 at hotmail.com>  Decker' ; 'Tom <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>
Hansen' ; 'Moscow Vision 2020' <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>  

Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:01 AM

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And the Count Continues . . .

Hi Matt and Mark,

Matt, I absolutely agree with Mark:  please quit singling out only those you
disagree with to receive your slaps on the hand while remaining mute on the
truly deplorable tactics of those with whom you share more political views.
It's unseemly, it hurts your credibility, and it's downright unfair.

IOW, quit being part of the problem and start being part of the solution!

For those who've not seen the Trib's coverage of Moscow's latest Kirker
whack job:

 <javascript:viewPhoto(8370,332,499)>
http://www.lmtribune.com/images/1077020.jpg

Dave Glasebrook, holding the yellow sign, staged a campaign protest and
triggered a 

counter-protest at the corner of Main and Third streets in downtown Moscow
on Monday evening.

http://www.lmtribune.com/adserver/www/delivery/lg.php?bannerid=303&campaigni
d=182&zoneid=85&channel_ids=,&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lmtribune.com%2Fstory%2Fn
orthwest%2F10084%2F&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lmtribune.com%2Fnorthwest%2F&cb
=1f79c81f71 Moscow city politics take a turn for the personal

Sign-wielding protester takes aim at three incumbents and draws response
from wife of one candidate and councilor

By David Johnson 

Tuesday, October 30, 2007

MOSCOW - The campaign for city council here took what some were calling a
tawdry turn Monday evening when a Moscow man displayed a sign alleging
bigotry against three incumbents.

"This is a Christian protest, not a vote protest," Dave Glasebrook said. "My
big problem is that here in Moscow there's been 20 years' worth of strife
with Doug Wilson and Christ Church."

Standing on the sidewalk at the intersection of Main and Third streets,
Glasebrook carried a yellow sign that read: "Vote the Bigot Party - Ament,
Lamar, Pall." He said the slogan was a sarcastic way to raise public
awareness.

Aaron Ament, Tom Lamar and Linda Pall are incumbents running for
re-election. Glasebrook claimed the three are part of a continued campaign
by city government to harass Wilson, his church and New Saint Andrews
College located in downtown Moscow.

"If I stand up and say Christian men in America need to get on their knees
and pray in order to change how America is, in order to change what's going
on in Moscow, Lewiston and Idaho, people won't understand that," Glasebrook
said.

So he decided to take to the street with his sign, attracting the attention
of motorists and pedestrians including Lamar's wife, Aly Lamar, who stopped
to mount a counter-demonstration.

"I'm here because I was riding my bicycle home on Main Street and I saw Dave
holding this sign and it really took me by surprise that he was calling my
husband, as well as other candidates, a bigot," Lamar said, explaining she
returned with one of her husband's campaign signs to stand next to
Glasebrook.

Aly Lamar said Glasebrook told her a number of reasons for his protest that
boiled down to claiming her husband voted with Ament and Pall on various
issues against Wilson, Christ Church and NSA. "So I discussed that with him
a little bit, and got worked up and started crying and frustrated and wanted
to do something." After realizing she and Glasebrook couldn't agree, Lamar
said she decided to go on the offensive.

"So I thought if he's going to have signs and visit with passers-by saying
Tom is a bigot I wanted to be here to let them know, in fact, that Tom is
not a bigot," Lamar said.

Glasebrook claimed Ament, in particular, overtly tried to force NSA out of
the downtown area. He said he was staging the protest on his own, not for or
at the behest of Wilson, or anyone associated with Christ Church or NSA.
"This is to open people's eyes, saying look at the bigotry in Moscow. Look
at what's going on." He said the city council is "not getting after the
Muslims" or any other faith, and that amounts to religious bigotry.

"I just hope God will use this sign and do something," Glasebrook said. "I
can't change Aaron's heart. I can't make him do something. I can't convince
Tom to do something. But I can get on my knees and I can pray that God will
lead them to make right decisions, not just decisions that are working
against one group of Christians in town."

Ament showed up and offered a terse take on Glasebrook's protest. "I think
of the two of us, the one that's guilty (of bigotry) is the one holding the
sign," Ament said. "My major crime is that I don't tolerate intolerance and
that's what I've been hung with. And I will never tolerate intolerance."

Pall could not be reached for comment.

---

Johnson may be contacted at 
 <mailto:deveryone at potlatch.com> deveryone at potlatch.com or (208) 883-0564.

JMHO,

Saundra Lund

Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.

~ Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2007 through life plus
70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside
the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
author.*****

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Mark Solomon
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:04 AM
To: Matt Decker; Tom Hansen; Moscow Vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And the Count Continues . . .

Matt,

Up until Doug and Dave's antics of yesterday, I would have agreed with you.
Until I hear GMA and their candidates disavow Doug and Dave's approach to
elections in Moscow then the show fits. Sadly.

m.

At 6:55 AM -0700 10/30/07, Matt Decker wrote:

Tom,

Any time you want to stick with the facts and quit the smear tactics would
be great.

Matt

  _____  

From: thansen at moscow.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 06:30:34 -0700
Subject: [Vision2020] And the Count Continues . . .

cid:image001.jpg at 01C81ACF.59737370

Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college
students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."

- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)

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