[Vision2020] Water Concern - is the science valid?

[Glenn Schwaller]

My intent is not to disparage any studies or opinions, scientific or
otherwise, on the issues of global warming, water use or misuse, or any
other topic.  I simply want to caution those who point to or accept
unquestioningly "published studies" or "peer-reviewed research" as being the
holy grail by which certainty is measured, that you may be on shaky ground.
"Peer-reviewed" publications can be bent to flavor any political, social, or
economic bent the author(s) and/or funding sources may have.  Indeed,
peer-reviewed publications can be nothing but garbage.

Recently, much press was devoted to the claims of Professor Hwang Woo-Suk of
Seoul National University that he had established 11 human embryonic stem
cell lines by transfer of somatic cell nuclei.  Total falsification of data,
yet peer-reviewed and published in Science, probably the most prestigious
journal of them all:

Hwang, W. S., Roh, S. I., Lee, B. C., Kang, S. K., Kwon, D. K., Kim, S. J.,
Park, S. W., Kwon, H. S., Lee, C., , K., et al (2005) Patient-specific
embryonic stem cells derived from human SCNT blastocysts. Science
308,1777-1783

The Norwegian oncologist Jon Sudbø, published a 2005 study in The Lancet (a
premier medical publication) claiming that long-term use of nonsteroidal
antiinflammatory drugs could reduce the risk of oral cancer.  A report with
extremely important medical ramifications, yet totally bogus.  Sudbø later
admitted that his data were totally false, and had been completely
fabricated on his computer:

Sudbø, J., Lee, J. J., Lippman, S. M., Mork, J., Sagen, S., Flatner, N.,
Ristimaki, A., Sudbo, A., Mao, L., Zhou, X., et al (2005) Non-steroidal
anti-inflammatory drugs and the risk of oral cancer: a nested case-control
study. Lancet 366,1359-1368

Luk van Parijs, one of the hottest rising stars in the field of interferring
RNA as a possible medical treatment, was recently dismissed from MIT after
confessing that he had fabricated data in grant applications, published
papers, and in submitted manuscripts:

Van Parijs, L., Peterson, D. A., Abbas, A. K. (1998) The Fas/Fas ligand
pathway and Bcl-2 regulate T cell responses to model self and foreign
antigens. Immunity 8, 265-274

Van Parijs, L., Refaeli, Y., Lord, J. D., Nelson, B. H., Abbas, A. K.,
Baltimore, D., Uncoupling, I. (1999) L-2 signals that regulate T cell
proliferation, survival, and Fas-mediated activation-induced cell death.
Immunity 11, 281-288

Even Francis Collins, then head of NIH's Human Genome Project, had to
retract 5 papers (published in Genomics, Molecular and Cellular Biology,
Proceeding of the National Academy of Sciences (two papers) and Genes,
Chromosomes and Cancer.  PNAS is probably 2nd only to Science in terms of
its prestigious nature as a journal) because a researcher in his lab faked
the data.  These papers were co-authored by Collins, meaning he read,
considered, questioned and approved their content before they were submitted
for peer-review.

It goes on and on, but the point is, when one is touting peer-reviewed
published studies to prove one's point, please remember that just 'cause
some scientist said it's so, don't mean it's necessarily so.

GS

On 10/19/07, g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
>  "*Condemning truthful, issue-oriented criticism as an attack, Gary then
> suggests that Aaron, Evan, Linda and Tom want to turn Moscow into Berkeley,
> 1968.  "Electioneering at its worst"?  Gary, if only reality entered into
> your own version of electioneering."*
>
> Truthful, issue-oriented criticism? Why don't you back that up and provide
> me with an example of one of the candidates in question actually wasting
> water or even making a statement that would indicate that they thought
> wasting water was a good idea.
>
> The "Berkley" remark was, as I'm sure most reasonable people could tell, a
> jape with a major grain of truth to it. Comparing the two is silly.
>
> Far be it from me to put words in Mr. Krauss' mouth but, what I took from
> the comment "*questioned whether it is worth it to conserve water in
> Moscow when more water is being used in Pullman."* and "*What I don't
> like, though, is the idea for us to try to save water here in Moscow so it
> can be used downstream."* is that it makes little sense to cut water usage
> in Moscow by 30% only to have our neighbors to the west increase theirs by
> 35%. Getting together with folks in Whitman Co. and surrounding areas and
> forging a combined strategy is likely to be a far more effective course of
> action than sitting on our side of the boarder and barking instructions and
> making demands.
>
> The same idea applies to being tired of seeing brown lawns and burned up
> cemeteries. To imagine that this is some kind of a call to start pouring on
> countless gallons of precious H2O and abandoning all conservation measures
> is quite a ludicrous leap. I would love to see lush green lawns in Moscow as
> well. What we need to do is come up with solutions not sit back and whine.
> Or worse yet adopt an attitude of "I'm here now, let's keep everyone else
> out so things will remain rosy for me"
>
> The long and the short of things is that conservation, all by itself, is
> not the answer to Moscow's long term water requirements. The sooner we get a
> city government that is willing to do something other than the current dog
> in the manger routine, the sooner a lasting solution will be realized. I
> strongly believe that voting in the GMA endorsed candidates will be a major
> step in the right direction.
>
> g
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* jeanlivingston <jeanlivingston at turbonet.com>
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2007 7:56 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
>
> Accusing those who correctly chastise the ostrich-like, Alfred E. Neuman
> "What me worry?" candidates sposored by the GMA, Gary asserts:
>
> To refer to Dan, Wayne, and Walt as the water wasting candidates is
> electioneering at its absolute worst. Clearly the guys are in favor of
> reasonable conservation measures and are as concerned for the future of
> Moscow as the candidates you so fervently support.
>
> Condemning truthful, issue-oriented criticism as an attack, Gary then
> suggests that Aaron, Evan, Linda and Tom want to turn Moscow into Berkeley,
> 1968.  "Electioneering at its worst"?  Gary, if only reality entered into
> your own version of electioneering.
>
> You deny the water wasting label that your candidates volunteered to
> assume.
>
> I think it's very fair to characterize, as environmentally unsound, policy
> statements opposing conservation as a bad idea because Pullman isn't
> conserving.
>
> According to the Daily News, Krauss "questioned whether it is worth it to
> conserve water in Moscow when more water is being used in Pullman."
>
> Dave Johnson of the Tribune quoted Krauss as follows:  "Krauss said. 'What
> I don't like, though, is the idea for us to try to save water here in Moscow
> so it can be used downstream.' "
>
> Likewise, concern that the cost of water is preventing folks from watering
> their lawns sure sounds like a call to water our lawns more, not less.
>
> Johnson also quoted Krauss as saying: "We could have, at the least, 200
> years of water left. ... But right now, folks, I'm just really tired of
> seeing all our yards just burned up, including the cemetery."
>
>  Noting that "Krauss also lamented the loss of green lawns in Moscow," the
> Daily News reported the same quote.
>
> According to the Daily News, "Steed said he felt somewhat like he was
> talking 'out of both sides of (his) mouth' by questioning Moscow's rising
> water rates.  In his job as a consultant, he's encouraged other communities
> to raise their water rates. Still, he is concerned that people in Moscow
> cannot afford to water their lawns."
>
> Both papers agreed with the statement that all three GMA candidates deny
> there is a water emergency, as I'm sure you do.
>
> According to the Daily News, "Two-year candidate Walter Steed and
> four-year candidate Wayne Krauss agreed with Carscallen that there is no
> immediate emergency."
>
> What does constitute an emergency?  When the aquifers actually run dry?
> Presum! ably, we agree that the aquifers are not yet "dry."   (Let's ignore,
> ostrich-style for the moment, that our upper aquifer, the Wanapum, got
> depleted forty-some years ago and is on-track to do it again). But
> suggesting that there's no emergency (because the aquifers aren't dry, *
> yet*) ignores the decline that is patently obvious to the folks who had to
> dig deeper wells at significant expense lately.  I'll bet the friends of
> mine who got stuck with a $7,000 bill because they had to dig a much deeper
> well would disagree about whether the  Wanapum's decline is an "emergency"
> or not.
>
>
>
> But in any event, I think it's fair to suggest that advocating for the use
> of more water on lawns is not advocating conservation.  And more especially,
> opposing conservation of water simply because Pullman isn't
> conserving water, is water-wasting environmental stewardship at its worst.
>
> Bruce Livingston!
>
>
>
>
> -----Original message-----
> From: "g. crabtree" jampot at roadrunner.com
> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:35:53 -0700
> To: "Bruce and Jean Livingston" jeanlivingston at turbonet.com, "Andreas
> Schou" ophite at gmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com, "Jeff Harkins"
> jeffh at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
>
> > To refer to Dan, Wayne, and Walt as the water wasting candidates is
> electioneering at its absolute worst. Clearly the guys are in favor of
> reasonable conservation measures and are as concerned for the future of
> Moscow as the candidates you so fervently support. They just don't use the
> issue as a bludgeon to force the community to conform itself to their
> preferred model. (with your candidates that appears to be Berkley circa
> 1968) So far your side has trotted out the "they hate kids" spiel and the
> "they want to flush our water down the drain" prevaricatio! n. What next,
> accusations of wife beating, treason, and a general contempt for apple pie?
> >
> > g
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bruce and Jean Livingston
> > To: Andreas Schou ; vision2020 at moscow.com ; Jeff Harkins
> > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 11:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
> >
> >
> > In part, Jeff says:
> > | And frankly, I have not heard any of the statements you attribute to
> > | Wayne Krauss, Walter Steed or Dan Carscallen. And if they did make
> > | those remarks, please tell me where and when.
> > For statements by your candidates, Jeff, if those statements already
> provided for you in this forum by David Johnson of the Lewiston Tribune, or
> the KLEW transcript, or the Daily News, all of which have already been
> provided to your candidates shame, why don't you look forward to the live
> recordings of their answers at the Chamber forum, all of w! hich will soon
> be available on-line and on "you tube"?
> >
> > Since they've been recorded and will be placed on-line, it will be
> especially interesting to see how the GMA's water-wasting candidates try to
> deal with their insensitive and environmentally unsound theories, knowing
> that the flip flop is waiting to be recorded, too.
> >
> > I agree with you that all candidates, MCA-endorsed, GMA-endorsed, and
> Evan Homes (the independent candidate running on his own), believe that they
> are "for" the community, and so on and so forth. But the vision of all is
> not the same, and the vision of the GMA candidates -- Naylor Farms mine
> loving, all retail loving, water wasting candidates -- does not fit with
> Moscow.
> >
> > I am convinced that Linda, Aaron, and Tom are the best candidates. Of
> course, that is only my opinion. And though I was waiting to see what was up
> with Walter and Evan, and we at the MCA have not endorsed Evan, Evan's!
> astute answers on economic development and water are convincing me that he
> is the better choice.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > P.S. Since I am not positive that the Daily News article, that included
> the candidates' water statements, had been presented on this forum, I will
> copy it here.
> > Moscow City Council candidates dive into water issues
> >
> > Tara Roberts, Daily News staff writer
> >
> > Thursday, October 18, 2007 - Page Updated at 12:00:00 AM
> >
> > Moscow City Council candidates were divided on issues of water and
> economic development at the Moscow Chamber of Commerce forum Wednesday.
> >
> > Due to time constraints, the candidates were able to answer just three
> questions. Chamber board member Mark Loaiza, who is on the Palouse Basin
> Aquifer Committee citizens advisory board, asked the candidates to explain
> their views on water regulation in Moscow and what the city should do to
> sustain water resources.
> >
> > All the candidates voiced support for PBAC, but disagreed about whether
> Moscow is facing a declining water source.
> >
> > Four-year candidate Dan Carscallen said he does not believe there is a
> water supply problem, but the city should explore other water sources for
> when there is a problem.
> >
> > "We can't just be one-note on the water situation," Carscallen said. "I
> think it's been used as a way to stop growth in our city."
> >
> > Two-year candidate Walter Steed and four-year candidate Wayne Krauss
> agreed with Carscallen that there is no immediate emergency.
> >
> > Steed said he's seen conflicting statistics about the Grande Ronde
> aquifer, which serves as Moscow's primary water source. He believes
> engineers can find empirical evidence to show if there truly is a problem.
> >
> > Steed said he felt somewhat like he was talking "out of both sides of (!
> his) mouth" by questioning Moscow's rising water rates. In his job as a
> consultant, he's encouraged other communities to raise their water rates.
> Still, he is concerned that people in Moscow cannot afford to water their
> lawns.
> >
> > Krauss also lamented the loss of green lawns in Moscow.
> >
> > "Folks, I'm tired of seeing all our yards just burned up, including the
> cemetery," he said.
> >
> > Krauss said there could be 200 years worth of water left in the aquifer,
> but the city should consider how it's "going to stabilize our situation." He
> questioned whether it is worth it to conserve water in Moscow when more
> water is being used in Pullman.
> >
> > Two-year candidate Evan Holmes said Moscow needs to protect its quality
> drinking water, calling it an essential part of the city's wealth.
> >
> > Holmes said he's not sure if more study into the aquifer situation is
> needed.
> >
> &g! t; "More conservation and more study doesn't necessarily yield more
> water," he said.
> >
> > Holmes said the city should have a plan in place for another water
> source, such as a reservoir, and begin putting money toward it.
> >
> > Four-year candidate and current council member Aaron Ament said the city
> knows the water level in the Grand Ronde is dropping, which should be "a
> signal to conserve what we have."
> >
> > Four-year candidate and current council member Tom Lamar, who also is
> executive director of the Palouse-Clearwater Environmental Institute, said
> the city should be a good steward of water resources.
> >
> > "I think water conservation is critical," he said.
> >
> > The aquifer levels continue to drop even when the city uses less water,
> Lamar said. He encourages recovering water in reservoirs or rainwater
> catchment systems. People should not forget about surface-water resou! rces
> such as Paradise Creek, and be aware of how they are affected by the city's
> stormwater and wastewater decisions.
> >
> > Four-year candidate and current council member Linda Pall agreed that
> water conservation is important. She said the city's conservation mechanisms
> are working well.
> >
> > "My issue with water is we have a limited supply, we don't know how much
> we have and our straw is taking out quite a bit from the aquifer right now,"
> she said.
> >
> > She said the city has a budget item for future studies for a possible
> reservoir.
> >
> >
> >
> > Economic development
> >
> > Chamber of Commerce board member Gary Hagen asked the candidates what
> role the city should play in economic development.
> >
> > Pall reiterated her desire for a city economic development coordinator,
> which she tried and failed to have included in the 2008 city budget. She
> said it is important to have s! omeone "take care of the follow-through for
> the city's economic development priorities."
> >
> > Ament said he supports the idea of a city development coordinator. He
> also would like to see the chamber reach out to a wider group, and more
> downtown businesses to join the chamber.
> >
> > "There is work to be done and I encourage the chamber in its outreach to
> our area's businesses," Ament said.
> >
> > He said economic development includes caring about public education,
> water resources and helping the city's existing tax base.
> >
> > Lamar said growth should focus on expanding the city's existing
> businesses. Business owners have told him they stay in Moscow because of the
> quality of life.
> >
> > He said the city needs a long-term vision for its economy.
> >
> > "I have a belief that a strong economy is dependent on a strong
> environment and a strong community," he said.
> ! >
> > Holmes emphasized economic stability, a key topic in his campaign. He
> said the city should focus on planning for growth in a way that isn't
> divisive or "willy-nilly."
> >
> > "Economic development doesn't really happen at the City Council level or
> at the voter level," he said. "It really happens when investors are willing
> to take risks on your city."
> >
> > Holmes said growth should not focus on retail, but retail should result
> from other types of economic development.
> >
> > On the other hand, Steed said Moscow needs to increase its shopping
> opportunities to make it more attractive to people.
> >
> > Steed said he sees the Latah Economic Development Council and chamber as
> marketers for the community. The city's role is to pass zoning laws, help
> existing businesses and bring in more businesses.
> >
> > Carscallen said the city should work in the background of economic dev!
> elopment, applying its codes to businesses that want to locate in town.
> >
> > Krauss said the city should work on improving its economic image and
> assisting developers with their goals to locate in Moscow. Some people
> perceive the community as unwelcoming to businesses.
> >
> > "If that's a perception, why do we have it?" Krauss asked.
> >
> >
> > Public transportation
> >
> > The candidates were more in harmony on issues of public transportation.
> Forum moderator Mark Boehne asked what the city can do to improve public
> transportation.
> >
> > Several candidates commended the work of Tom La Pointe, director of
> Valley Transit.
> >
> > "I think the best thing we can do is whatever Tom La Pointe tells us
> to," Carscallen said.
> >
> > Many candidates said the bus system has grown and will continue to grow.
> Ament said the city has increased its funding for Moscow Valley Tr! ansit
> over the past few years.
> >
> > "This is clearly something our community supports," he said.
> >
> > Ament and Lamar said they'd like to see funds generated to add a third
> route and increase the bus system's hours. Holmes said the city grant writer
> should put efforts toward finding funds.
> >
> > Lamar said it is vital to continue the Wheatland Express bus service
> between Moscow and Pullman, and Krauss said the city should consider
> utilizing the rail lines between the cities for transportation.
> >
> > Steed, who was a founding member of the Transportation Commission with
> Lamar, said the city should focus on "multimodal" transportation and connect
> sidewalks as well as support the bus system.
> >
> > Krauss also said the city should consider creating a trolley system, an
> idea he heard from Pall.
> >
> > Pall called the trolley idea "light, light rail" and suggested rou! tes
> from the University of Idaho Administration Building to Friendship Square
> and from Friendship Square around the city to Mountain View Road.
> >
> > The trolley idea is a ways in the future, Pall said. If it is ever a
> reality, it will need the support of the UI.
> >
> > "We absolutely need their help and support to make public transportation
> work," Pall said.
> >
> > Other forums will be 11:30 a.m. Friday at the Best Western-University
> Inn, sponsored by the AARP, and at 7 p.m. Tuesday in the Moscow High
> School Auditorium, sponsored by the League of Women Voters and the
> Moscow-Pullman Daily News.
> >
> > Tara Roberts can be reached at (208) 882-5561, ext. 234, or by e-mail at
> troberts at dnews.com.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Harkins"
> > To: "Andreas Schou" ;
> > Sent: ! Thursday, October 18, 2007 10:48 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
> >
> >
> > | If the facts are so readily available, please enlighten us all.
> > |
> > | I've read all the material from the last several water forums,
> > | committees and so forth. There is certainly no consensus evident
> > | from the materials I read. Do you have a particular source or
> > | reference that would validate your statements?
> > |
> > | And frankly, I have not heard any of the statements you attribute to
> > | Wayne Krauss, Walter Steed or Dan Carscallen. And if they did make
> > | those remarks, please tell me where and when.
> > |
> > | You raise an interesting point about relations with Pullman and
> > | tangentially with Whitman officials. I have visited with a couple of
> > | elected officials from Pullman and from Whitman. It was made rather
> > | clear to me tha! t Pullman would have been delighted to talk with
> > | Moscow officials about the various water issues and policies and
> > | other matters of concern between our two communities. But, in their
> > | mind, the contacts from our side have more or less poisoned that well
> > | - when you threaten to sue your neighbors, when you interfere in
> > | their activities, and attempt to coerce them to agree with you - it
> > | does make it difficult to have a dialogue.
> > |
> > | Wayne Krauss, Walter Steed and Dan Carscallen are probably our best
> > | choices for bringing reason and rationale to the political quagmire
> > | we find ourselves in now.
> > |
> > | On the bright side, a change in our management may offer another
> > | chance to revisit Pullman officials, to open some doors, to have some
> > | conversations, etc. I suspect Pullman would be very willing to work
> > | with us, but ! I am fairly certain they have no interest in working
> for
> > | us. They are charting their own course - as is their right and
> responsibility.
> > |
> > | Please let me know if you can provide me with citations about the
> > | statements you attribute to Walter, Wayne and Dan. Also, any new
> > | studies that affirm your claims about the aquifer status and its
> > | future would also be helpful.
> > |
> > |
> > | At 10:10 PM 10/18/2007, you wrote:
> > | >Jeff --
> > | >
> > | >You've confused opinions with facts.
> > | >
> > | >The GMA candidates have the right to whatever opinions they like.
> They
> > | >can believe that it will be fine if we reach the bottom of the
> > | >aquifer. They can believe that we can get water from elsewhere at
> > | >reasonable cost. They can believe that we can negotiate with Pullman
> > | >to keep them from depl! eting our shared aquifer at an unreasonable
> > | >rate. All of these things are reasonable opinions.
> > | >
> > | >Wrong, but reasonable.
> > | >
> > | >The issue of whether we are depleting our aquifer at a rate greater
> > | >than the rate of replenishment isn't a matter of opinion. It is a
> > | >matter of fact. Similar, for instance, to the fact that the Earth is
> > | >getting warmer. GMA can either provide its own peer-reviewed
> > | >projections or start talking about the facts as they exist.
> > | >
> > | >Wishful thinking is not a water policy.
> > | >
> > | >-- ACS
> > | >
> > | >
> > | >On 10/18/07, Jeff Harkins wrote:
> > | > >
> > | > > Gary, good to see your clear and concise comments making a
> difference.
> > | > > Here are some of my observations.
> > | > >> | > > Ideologues are all around us in this region. They have no
> solution to
> > | > > resolve the water issue (or much of any other issue) but they
> follow the
> > | > > same tactic used since the creation of the MCA; fear,
> intimidation,
> > | > > heckling and smearing are their tools. If you support an
> organization like
> > | > > GMA, you are publicly chided for supporting candidates endorsed
> > | > by them. In
> > | > > other words, you don't know as much as the MCA people and
> therefore your
> > | > > voices and your opinions don't matter.
> > | > >
> > | > > Frankly, all the candidates for city council seem to be honest,
> > | > sincere and
> > | > > interested in doing what they perceive to be the best things for
> the
> > | > > community. But when the actions of supporters and/or candidates
> sense a
> > | > > challenge ! to their "vision for Moscow", rather than debate the
> issue, they
> > | > > turn on the candidate and chide them for their opinions. Wayne
> Krauss,
> > | > > Walter Steed and Dan Carscallen are all honorable men. They have
> > | > spent most
> > | > > of their adult lives in this community. They have a right to be
> > | > respected -
> > | > > for their views, for their willingness to step up to the challenge
> of city
> > | > > council and for their willingness to engage in honorable debate
> with
> > | > > candidates that they don't agree with.
> > | > >
> > | > > In a similar vein, Linda Pall, Aaron Ament, Tom Lamar and Evin
> Holmes are
> > | > > honorable folks. Most have spent a good portion of their adult
> lives in
> > | > > Moscow and they should be respected for their willingness to serve
> our
> > | > > community.
> > |! > >
> > | > > To indict any of them for their opinions and views on a topic
> simply
> > | > > validates that our citizens should not vote for the candidate the
> indictors
> > | > > are supporting but should vote for the candidate being scalloped.
> Issues
> > | > > and answers and policies such as the water question are founded
> first in
> > | > > science. Let the science do the talking - report studies, provide
> links to
> > | > > the scientific evidence, establish the proposition of your
> hypothesis and
> > | > > then talk about strategies for solutions. It is "very difficult"
> > | > to resolve
> > | > > a problem with rhetoric and finger pointing (Joe and Bruce, you
> are
> > | > > encouraged to think about this very carefully).
> > | > >
> > | > > This coming election will say a lot about our community and about
> the
> > | ! > > future we chart for ourselves. It is time for the hand-wringers
> to move to
> > | > > the sidelines. We need decisive, thoughtful and forthright
> leadership to
> > | > > guide us through the challenges that lay ahead. Will we have a
> community
> > | > > that can support our children and the children of our children?
> Will we be
> > | > > able to welcome new residents with a bundle of opportunities that
> entices
> > | > > them to stay or will we winnow them out - because they don't fit
> into our
> > | > > lifestyle? Will we have the type of community that encourages
> > | > entrepreneurs
> > | > > to come here and risk their investment capital here or will we
> worry
> > | > > ourselves to death over whether or not this business or that
> business is
> > | > > "acceptable"? What I have learned from listening to the forums
> this past
> > | > > couple! of years is that even if Santa Claus wanted to move his
> operation
> > | > > here, there would be at least a handful of people who would object
> to that
> > | > > move.
> > | > >
> > | > > For my taste, it is time for a change in Moscow.
> > | > >
> > | > >
> > | > > At 07:02 PM 10/18/2007, you wrote:
> > | > >
> > | > > Conservation can never be a bad idea but using the water issue as
> a club to
> > | > > force other ideological visions on the community where they don't
> > | > apply (big
> > | > > box ordinances for one example) is disingenuous. I don't believe
> that the
> > | > > GMA endorsed candidates are suggesting that we make a desperate
> attempt to
> > | > > suck the aquifer dry before their terms expire. To suggest
> otherwise is
> > | > > simply partisan politics at its worst.
> > | > >
> &! gt; | > > g
> > | > > ----- Original Message -----
> > | > > From: "Tom Hansen"
> > | > > To: "'g. crabtree'" ; "'Joe Campbell'"
> > | > > ; ; "'Mark Solomon'"
> > | > >
> > | > > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 4:29 PM
> > | > > Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
> > | > >
> > | > > >g -
> > | > > >
> > | > > > You suggested that perhaps none of the city council candidates
> have a
> > | > > firm
> > | > > > handle on the water situation.
> > | > > >
> > | > > > If this is true, wouldn't it be better advised to err on the
> side of
> > | > > > caution?
> > | > > >
> > | > > > ! Both Lamar and Ament cited PBAC as authorities on the figures
> they
> > | > > presented
> > | > > > yesterday at the CofC Forum. Krauss cited "something [he] read
> > | > > somewhere"
> > | > > > and Steed simply wants to remove limitations and controls.
> > | > > >
> > | > > > Your thoughts?
> > | > > >
> > | > > > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> > | > > >
> > | > > > Tom Hansen
> > | > > > Moscow, Idaho
> > | > > >
> > | > > > "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The
> college
> > | > > > students are not very active in local elections (thank
> goodness!)."
> > | > > >
> > | > > > - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
> > | > > >
> > | > > > -----Original Message-----
> > | > > ! >
> > | > > > From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [
> > | > > mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> > | > > > On Behalf Of g. crabtree
> > | > > > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 3:33 PM
> > | > > > To: Joe Campbell; vision2020 at moscow.com; Mark Solomon
> > | > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
> > | > > >
> > | > > > I assume the statement that includes "...regarding
> > | > > > the upper aquifer which if continued to be pumped at current
> > | > levels could
> > | > > be
> > | > > >
> > | > > > in crisis as soon as 15-20 years from now." is couched that way
> to leave
> > | > > > room for the obvious corollary?
> > | > > >
> > | > > > Could be 50-75 years, could be 115-120 years? Could be we really
> don't
> > | > > know> | > > > for sure? Could be that Krauss, Carscallen, and
> Steed have as firm a
> > | > > handle
> > | > > > on the water situation as any of the MCA candidates do.
> > | > > >
> > | > > > g
> > | > > >
> > | > > >
> > | > > >
> > | > > >
> > | > > =======================================================
> > | > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > | > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > | > > http://www.fsr.net
> > | > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > | > > =======================================================
> > | > > =======================================================
> > | > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > | > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> ! > | > > http://www.fsr.net
> > | > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > | > > =======================================================
> > | > >
> > |
> > | =======================================================
> > | List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > | serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > | http://www.fsr.net
> > | mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > | =======================================================
> > |
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
>
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
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