My intent is not to disparage any studies or opinions, scientific or
otherwise, on the issues of global warming, water use or misuse, or any
other topic. I simply want to caution those who point to or
accept unquestioningly "published studies" or "peer-reviewed research"
as being the holy grail by which certainty is measured, that you may be
on shaky ground. "Peer-reviewed" publications can be bent to
flavor any political, social, or economic bent the author(s) and/or
funding sources may have. Indeed, peer-reviewed publications can
be nothing but garbage.<br>
<br>
Recently, much press was devoted to the claims of Professor Hwang
Woo-Suk of Seoul National University that he had established 11 human
embryonic stem cell lines by transfer of somatic cell nuclei.
Total falsification of data, yet peer-reviewed and published in
Science, probably the most prestigious journal of them all:<br>
<br>
Hwang, W. S., Roh, S. I., Lee, B. C., Kang, S. K., Kwon, D. K., Kim, S.
J., Park, S. W., Kwon, H. S., Lee, C., , K., et al (2005)
Patient-specific embryonic stem cells derived from human SCNT
blastocysts. Science 308,1777-1783<br>
<br>
The Norwegian oncologist Jon Sudbø, published a 2005 study in The
Lancet (a premier medical publication) claiming that long-term use of
nonsteroidal antiinflammatory drugs could reduce the risk of oral
cancer. A report with extremely important medical ramifications,
yet totally bogus. Sudbø later admitted that his data were
totally false, and had been completely fabricated on his computer:<br>
<br>
Sudbø, J., Lee, J. J., Lippman, S. M., Mork, J., Sagen, S., Flatner,
N., Ristimaki, A., Sudbo, A., Mao, L., Zhou, X., et al (2005)
Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs and the risk of oral cancer: a
nested case-control study. Lancet 366,1359-1368<br>
<br>
Luk van Parijs, one of the hottest rising stars in the field of
interferring RNA as a possible medical treatment, was recently
dismissed from MIT after confessing that he had fabricated data in
grant applications, published papers, and in submitted manuscripts:<br>
<br>
Van Parijs, L., Peterson, D. A., Abbas, A. K. (1998) The Fas/Fas ligand
pathway and Bcl-2 regulate T cell responses to model self and foreign
antigens. Immunity 8, 265-274<br>
<br>
Van Parijs, L., Refaeli, Y., Lord, J. D., Nelson, B. H., Abbas, A. K.,
Baltimore, D., Uncoupling, I. (1999) L-2 signals that regulate T cell
proliferation, survival, and Fas-mediated activation-induced cell
death. Immunity 11, 281-288
<br>
<br>
Even Francis Collins, then head of NIH's Human Genome Project, had to
retract 5 papers (published in Genomics, Molecular and Cellular
Biology, Proceeding of the National Academy of Sciences (two papers)
and Genes, Chromosomes and Cancer. PNAS is probably 2nd only to
Science in terms of its prestigious nature as a journal) because a
researcher in his lab faked the data. These papers were
co-authored by Collins, meaning he read, considered, questioned and
approved their content before they were submitted for peer-review.<br>
<br>
It goes on and on, but the point is, when one is touting peer-reviewed
published studies to prove one's point, please remember that just
'cause some scientist said it's so, don't mean it's necessarily so.<br>
<br>
GS<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 10/19/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">g. crabtree</b> <<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff"><span class="q">
<div>"<em>Condemning truthful, issue-oriented criticism as an attack, Gary then
suggests that Aaron, Evan, Linda and Tom want to turn Moscow into Berkeley,
1968. "Electioneering at its worst"? Gary, if only reality entered
into your own version of electioneering."</em></div>
<div> </div></span>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Truthful, issue-oriented criticism? Why don't you
back that up and provide me with an example of one of the candidates in question
actually wasting water or even making a statement that would indicate that they
thought wasting water was a good idea.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The "Berkley" remark was, as I'm sure most
reasonable people could tell, a jape with a major grain of truth to it.
Comparing the two is silly.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Far be it from me to put words in Mr. Krauss' mouth
but, what I took from the comment "<font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><em>questioned whether it is worth it to conserve water in Moscow when
more water is being used in Pullman."</em> <font face="Arial" size="2">and</font> "<em>What I don't like, though, is the idea for us to try to
save water here in Moscow so it can be used downstream."</em> <font face="Arial" size="2">is that it makes little sense to cut water usage in Moscow by 30%
only to have our neighbors to the west increase theirs by 35%. Getting together
with folks in Whitman Co. and surrounding areas and forging a combined
strategy is likely to be a far more effective course of action than sitting on
our side of the boarder and barking instructions and making
demands.</font></font></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The same idea applies to being tired of seeing
brown lawns and burned up cemeteries. To imagine that this is some kind of a
call to start pouring on countless gallons of precious H2O and abandoning all
conservation measures is quite a ludicrous leap. I would love to see lush
green lawns in Moscow as well. What we need to do is come up with solutions not
sit back and whine. Or worse yet adopt an attitude of "I'm here now, let's keep
everyone else out so things will remain rosy for me"</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The long and the short of things is that
conservation, all by itself, is not the answer to Moscow's long term water
requirements. The sooner we get a city government that is willing to do
something other than the current dog in the manger routine, the sooner a lasting
solution will be realized. I strongly believe that voting in the GMA
endorsed candidates will be a major step in the right
direction.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">g</font></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"><div><span class="e" id="q_115baaa98eb0386c_3">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
<b>From:</b>
<a title="jeanlivingston@turbonet.com" href="mailto:jeanlivingston@turbonet.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">jeanlivingston</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b> <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
vision2020@moscow.com</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 19, 2007 7:56
AM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Water
Concern?</div>
<div><br></div>
<p>Accusing those who correctly chastise the ostrich-like, Alfred E. Neuman
"What me worry?" candidates sposored by the GMA, Gary asserts:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-right: 0px;" dir="ltr">
<p>To refer to Dan, Wayne, and Walt as the water wasting candidates is
electioneering at its absolute worst. Clearly the guys are in favor of
reasonable conservation measures and are as concerned for the future of
Moscow as the candidates you so fervently support. </p></blockquote>
<p dir="ltr">Condemning truthful, issue-oriented criticism as an attack, Gary
then suggests that Aaron, Evan, Linda and Tom want to turn Moscow into
Berkeley, 1968. "Electioneering at its worst"? Gary, if only
reality entered into your own version of electioneering. </p>
</span></div><p dir="ltr"></p><div><span class="e" id="q_115baaa98eb0386c_5">
<p dir="ltr">You deny the water wasting label that your candidates
volunteered to assume. </p>
</span></div><p dir="ltr"></p><div><span class="e" id="q_115baaa98eb0386c_7">
<p dir="ltr">I think it's very fair to characterize, as environmentally unsound,
policy statements opposing conservation as a bad idea because Pullman
isn't conserving. </p>
<blockquote style="margin-right: 0px;" dir="ltr">
<p>According to the Daily News, Krauss "questioned whether it is worth it to
conserve water in Moscow when more water is being used in Pullman."
</p>
<p>
</p><p>Dave Johnson of the Tribune quoted Krauss as follows: "Krauss said.
'What I don't like, though, is the idea for us to try to save water here in
Moscow so it can be used downstream.' " </p><p></p></blockquote>
<p>Likewise, concern that the cost of water is preventing folks from
watering their lawns sure sounds like a call to water our lawns more, not
less. </p>
<blockquote style="margin-right: 0px;" dir="ltr">
<p>Johnson also quoted Krauss as saying: "We could have, at the least, 200
years of water left. ... But right now, folks, I'm just really tired of
seeing all our yards just burned up, including the cemetery."
</p></blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-right: 0px;" dir="ltr">
<p>Noting that "Krauss also lamented the loss of green lawns in Moscow," the
Daily News reported the same quote.</p>
<p>
</p><p>According to the Daily News, "Steed said he felt somewhat like he was
talking 'out of both sides of (his) mouth' by questioning Moscow's rising
water rates. In his job as a consultant, he's encouraged other
communities to raise their water rates. Still, he is concerned that people
in Moscow cannot afford to water their lawns."</p><p></p></blockquote>
<p dir="ltr">Both papers agreed with the statement that all three GMA candidates
deny there is a water emergency, as I'm sure you do. </p>
<blockquote style="margin-right: 0px;" dir="ltr">
<p>According to the Daily News, "Two-year candidate Walter Steed and
four-year candidate Wayne Krauss agreed with Carscallen that there is no
immediate emergency."</p></blockquote>
<p dir="ltr">What does constitute an emergency? When the aquifers actually
run dry? Presum! ably, we agree that the aquifers are not yet
"dry." (Let's ignore, ostrich-style for the moment, that our upper
aquifer, the Wanapum, got depleted forty-some years ago and is on-track to do
it again). But suggesting that there's no emergency (because the aquifers
aren't dry, <em>yet</em>) ignores the decline that is patently
obvious to the folks who had to dig deeper wells at significant
expense lately. I'll bet the friends of mine who got stuck with a
$7,000 bill because they had to dig a much deeper well would disagree about
whether the Wanapum's decline is an "emergency" or not.</p>
<p dir="ltr"> </p>
<p dir="ltr">But in any event, I think it's fair to suggest that advocating for
the use of more water on lawns is not advocating conservation. And more
especially, opposing conservation of water simply because Pullman isn't
conserving water, is water-wasting environmental stewardship at its
worst.</p>
</span></div><p dir="ltr">
</p><p dir="ltr">Bruce Livingston! </p>
<p>
</p><p>
</p><p>
</p><p></p><div><span class="e" id="q_115baaa98eb0386c_9">
<p> </p>
<p> </p>-----Original message-----<br>From: "g. crabtree"
<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">jampot@roadrunner.com</a><br>Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:35:53 -0700<br>To: "Bruce
and Jean Livingston" <a href="mailto:jeanlivingston@turbonet.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">jeanlivingston@turbonet.com</a>, "Andreas Schou"
<a href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">ophite@gmail.com</a>, <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
vision2020@moscow.com</a>, "Jeff Harkins"
<a href="mailto:jeffh@moscow.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">jeffh@moscow.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?<br><br>> To
refer to Dan, Wayne, and Walt as the water wasting candidates is
electioneering at its absolute worst. Clearly the guys are in favor of
reasonable conservation measures and are as concerned for the future of Moscow
as the candidates you so fervently support. They just don't use the issue as a
bludgeon to force the community to conform itself to their preferred model.
(with your candidates that appears to be Berkley circa 1968) So far your side
has trotted out the "they hate kids" spiel and the "they want to flush our
water down the drain" prevaricatio! n. What next, accusations of wife beating,
treason, and a general contempt for apple pie?<br>> <br>> g<br>>
----- Original Message ----- <br>> From: Bruce and Jean Livingston <br>>
To: Andreas Schou ; <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">vision2020@moscow.com</a> ; Jeff Harkins <br>> Sent:
Thursday, October 18, 2007 11:38 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water
Concern?<br>> <br>> <br>> In part, Jeff says:<br>> | And frankly,
I have not heard any of the statements you attribute to <br>> | Wayne
Krauss, Walter Steed or Dan Carscallen. And if they did make <br>> | those
remarks, please tell me where and when.<br>> For statements by your
candidates, Jeff, if those statements already provided for you in this forum
by David Johnson of the Lewiston Tribune, or the KLEW transcript, or the Daily
News, all of which have already been provided to your candidates shame, why
don't you look forward to the live recordings of their answers at the Chamber
forum, all of w! hich will soon be available on-line and on "you tube"?
<br>> <br>> Since they've been recorded and will be placed on-line, it
will be especially interesting to see how the GMA's water-wasting candidates
try to deal with their insensitive and environmentally unsound theories,
knowing that the flip flop is waiting to be recorded, too.<br>> <br>> I
agree with you that all candidates, MCA-endorsed, GMA-endorsed, and Evan Homes
(the independent candidate running on his own), believe that they are "for"
the community, and so on and so forth. But the vision of all is not the same,
and the vision of the GMA candidates -- Naylor Farms mine loving, all retail
loving, water wasting candidates -- does not fit with Moscow. <br>>
<br>> I am convinced that Linda, Aaron, and Tom are the best candidates. Of
course, that is only my opinion. And though I was waiting to see what was up
with Walter and Evan, and we at the MCA have not endorsed Evan, Evan's! astute
answers on economic development and water are convincing me that he is the
better choice.<br>> <br>> Bruce<br>> <br>> P.S. Since I am not
positive that the Daily News article, that included the candidates' water
statements, had been presented on this forum, I will copy it here.<br>>
Moscow City Council candidates dive into water issues <br>> <br>> Tara
Roberts, Daily News staff writer<br>> <br>> Thursday, October 18, 2007 -
Page Updated at 12:00:00 AM<br>> <br>> Moscow City Council candidates
were divided on issues of water and economic development at the Moscow Chamber
of Commerce forum Wednesday.<br>> <br>> Due to time constraints, the
candidates were able to answer just three questions. Chamber board member Mark
Loaiza, who is on the Palouse Basin Aquifer Committee citizens advisory board,
asked the candidates to explain their views on water regulation in Moscow and
what the city should do to sustain water resources.<br>> <br>> All the
candidates voiced support for PBAC, but disagreed about whether Moscow is
facing a declining water source.<br>> <br>> Four-year candidate Dan
Carscallen said he does not believe there is a water supply problem, but the
city should explore other water sources for when there is a problem.<br>>
<br>> "We can't just be one-note on the water situation," Carscallen said.
"I think it's been used as a way to stop growth in our city."<br>> <br>>
Two-year candidate Walter Steed and four-year candidate Wayne Krauss agreed
with Carscallen that there is no immediate emergency.<br>> <br>> Steed
said he's seen conflicting statistics about the Grande Ronde aquifer, which
serves as Moscow's primary water source. He believes engineers can find
empirical evidence to show if there truly is a problem.<br>> <br>> Steed
said he felt somewhat like he was talking "out of both sides of (! his) mouth"
by questioning Moscow's rising water rates. In his job as a consultant, he's
encouraged other communities to raise their water rates. Still, he is
concerned that people in Moscow cannot afford to water their lawns.<br>>
<br>> Krauss also lamented the loss of green lawns in Moscow.<br>>
<br>> "Folks, I'm tired of seeing all our yards just burned up, including
the cemetery," he said.<br>> <br>> Krauss said there could be 200 years
worth of water left in the aquifer, but the city should consider how it's
"going to stabilize our situation." He questioned whether it is worth it to
conserve water in Moscow when more water is being used in Pullman.<br>>
<br>> Two-year candidate Evan Holmes said Moscow needs to protect its
quality drinking water, calling it an essential part of the city's
wealth.<br>> <br>> Holmes said he's not sure if more study into the
aquifer situation is needed.<br>> <br>&g! t; "More conservation and
more study doesn't necessarily yield more water," he said.<br>> <br>>
Holmes said the city should have a plan in place for another water source,
such as a reservoir, and begin putting money toward it.<br>> <br>>
Four-year candidate and current council member Aaron Ament said the city knows
the water level in the Grand Ronde is dropping, which should be "a signal to
conserve what we have."<br>> <br>> Four-year candidate and current
council member Tom Lamar, who also is executive director of the
Palouse-Clearwater Environmental Institute, said the city should be a good
steward of water resources.<br>> <br>> "I think water conservation is
critical," he said.<br>> <br>> The aquifer levels continue to drop even
when the city uses less water, Lamar said. He encourages recovering water in
reservoirs or rainwater catchment systems. People should not forget about
surface-water resou! rces such as Paradise Creek, and be aware of how they are
affected by the city's stormwater and wastewater decisions.<br>> <br>>
Four-year candidate and current council member Linda Pall agreed that water
conservation is important. She said the city's conservation mechanisms are
working well.<br>> <br>> "My issue with water is we have a limited
supply, we don't know how much we have and our straw is taking out quite a bit
from the aquifer right now," she said.<br>> <br>> She said the city has
a budget item for future studies for a possible reservoir.<br>> <br>>
<br>> <br>> Economic development<br>> <br>> Chamber of Commerce
board member Gary Hagen asked the candidates what role the city should play in
economic development.<br>> <br>> Pall reiterated her desire for a city
economic development coordinator, which she tried and failed to have included
in the 2008 city budget. She said it is important to have s! omeone "take care
of the follow-through for the city's economic development priorities."<br>>
<br>> Ament said he supports the idea of a city development coordinator. He
also would like to see the chamber reach out to a wider group, and more
downtown businesses to join the chamber.<br>> <br>> "There is work to be
done and I encourage the chamber in its outreach to our area's businesses,"
Ament said.<br>> <br>> He said economic development includes caring
about public education, water resources and helping the city's existing tax
base.<br>> <br>> Lamar said growth should focus on expanding the city's
existing businesses. Business owners have told him they stay in Moscow because
of the quality of life.<br>> <br>> He said the city needs a long-term
vision for its economy.<br>> <br>> "I have a belief that a strong
economy is dependent on a strong environment and a strong community," he
said.<br>! > <br>> Holmes emphasized economic stability, a key topic in
his campaign. He said the city should focus on planning for growth in a way
that isn't divisive or "willy-nilly."<br>> <br>> "Economic development
doesn't really happen at the City Council level or at the voter level," he
said. "It really happens when investors are willing to take risks on your
city."<br>> <br>> Holmes said growth should not focus on retail, but
retail should result from other types of economic development.<br>>
<br>> On the other hand, Steed said Moscow needs to increase its shopping
opportunities to make it more attractive to people.<br>> <br>> Steed
said he sees the Latah Economic Development Council and chamber as marketers
for the community. The city's role is to pass zoning laws, help existing
businesses and bring in more businesses. <br>> <br>> Carscallen said the
city should work in the background of economic dev! elopment, applying its
codes to businesses that want to locate in town.<br>> <br>> Krauss said
the city should work on improving its economic image and assisting developers
with their goals to locate in Moscow. Some people perceive the community as
unwelcoming to businesses.<br>> <br>> "If that's a perception, why do we
have it?" Krauss asked.<br>> <br>> <br>> Public
transportation<br>> <br>> The candidates were more in harmony on issues
of public transportation. Forum moderator Mark Boehne asked what the city can
do to improve public transportation.<br>> <br>> Several candidates
commended the work of Tom La Pointe, director of Valley Transit.<br>>
<br>> "I think the best thing we can do is whatever Tom La Pointe tells us
to," Carscallen said.<br>> <br>> Many candidates said the bus system has
grown and will continue to grow. Ament said the city has increased its funding
for Moscow Valley Tr! ansit over the past few years.<br>> <br>> "This is
clearly something our community supports," he said.<br>> <br>> Ament and
Lamar said they'd like to see funds generated to add a third route and
increase the bus system's hours. Holmes said the city grant writer should put
efforts toward finding funds.<br>> <br>> Lamar said it is vital to
continue the Wheatland Express bus service between Moscow and Pullman, and
Krauss said the city should consider utilizing the rail lines between the
cities for transportation.<br>> <br>> Steed, who was a founding member
of the Transportation Commission with Lamar, said the city should focus on
"multimodal" transportation and connect sidewalks as well as support the bus
system.<br>> <br>> Krauss also said the city should consider creating a
trolley system, an idea he heard from Pall.<br>> <br>> Pall called the
trolley idea "light, light rail" and suggested rou! tes from the University of
Idaho Administration Building to Friendship Square and from Friendship Square
around the city to Mountain View Road.<br>> <br>> The trolley idea is a
ways in the future, Pall said. If it is ever a reality, it will need the
support of the UI.<br>> <br>> "We absolutely need their help and support
to make public transportation work," Pall said.<br>> <br>> Other forums
will be 11:30 a.m. Friday at the Best Western-University Inn, sponsored by the
AARP, and at 7 p.m. Tuesday in the Moscow High School Auditorium, sponsored by
the League of Women Voters and the Moscow-Pullman Daily News. <br>>
<br>> Tara Roberts can be reached at (208) 882-5561, ext. 234, or by e-mail
at <a href="mailto:troberts@dnews.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">troberts@dnews.com</a>.<br>> <br>> <br>> ----- Original Message -----
<br>> From: "Jeff Harkins" <br>> To: "Andreas Schou"
; <br>> Sent: ! Thursday,
October 18, 2007 10:48 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water
Concern?<br>> <br>> <br>> | If the facts are so readily available,
please enlighten us all.<br>> | <br>> | I've read all the material from
the last several water forums, <br>> | committees and so forth. There is
certainly no consensus evident <br>> | from the materials I read. Do you
have a particular source or <br>> | reference that would validate your
statements?<br>> | <br>> | And frankly, I have not heard any of the
statements you attribute to <br>> | Wayne Krauss, Walter Steed or Dan
Carscallen. And if they did make <br>> | those remarks, please tell me
where and when.<br>> | <br>> | You raise an interesting point about
relations with Pullman and <br>> | tangentially with Whitman officials. I
have visited with a couple of <br>> | elected officials from Pullman and
from Whitman. It was made rather <br>> | clear to me tha! t Pullman would
have been delighted to talk with <br>> | Moscow officials about the various
water issues and policies and <br>> | other matters of concern between our
two communities. But, in their <br>> | mind, the contacts from our side
have more or less poisoned that well <br>> | - when you threaten to sue
your neighbors, when you interfere in <br>> | their activities, and attempt
to coerce them to agree with you - it <br>> | does make it difficult to
have a dialogue.<br>> | <br>> | Wayne Krauss, Walter Steed and Dan
Carscallen are probably our best <br>> | choices for bringing reason and
rationale to the political quagmire <br>> | we find ourselves in
now.<br>> | <br>> | On the bright side, a change in our management may
offer another <br>> | chance to revisit Pullman officials, to open some
doors, to have some <br>> | conversations, etc. I suspect Pullman would be
very willing to work <br>> | with us, but ! I am fairly certain they have
no interest in working for <br>> | us. They are charting their own course -
as is their right and responsibility.<br>> | <br>> | Please let me know
if you can provide me with citations about the <br>> | statements you
attribute to Walter, Wayne and Dan. Also, any new <br>> | studies that
affirm your claims about the aquifer status and its <br>> | future would
also be helpful.<br>> | <br>> | <br>> | At 10:10 PM 10/18/2007, you
wrote:<br>> | >Jeff --<br>> | ><br>> | >You've confused
opinions with facts.<br>> | ><br>> | >The GMA candidates have the
right to whatever opinions they like. They<br>> | >can believe that it
will be fine if we reach the bottom of the<br>> | >aquifer. They can
believe that we can get water from elsewhere at<br>> | >reasonable cost.
They can believe that we can negotiate with Pullman<br>> | >to keep them
from depl! eting our shared aquifer at an unreasonable<br>> | >rate. All
of these things are reasonable opinions.<br>> | ><br>> | >Wrong,
but reasonable.<br>> | ><br>> | >The issue of whether we are
depleting our aquifer at a rate greater<br>> | >than the rate of
replenishment isn't a matter of opinion. It is a<br>> | >matter of fact.
Similar, for instance, to the fact that the Earth is<br>> | >getting
warmer. GMA can either provide its own peer-reviewed<br>> | >projections
or start talking about the facts as they exist.<br>> | ><br>> |
>Wishful thinking is not a water policy.<br>> | ><br>> | >--
ACS<br>> | ><br>> | ><br>> | >On 10/18/07, Jeff Harkins
wrote:<br>> | > ><br>> | > > Gary, good
to see your clear and concise comments making a difference.<br>> | >
> Here are some of my observations.<br>> | > >> | >
> Ideologues are all around us in this region. They have no solution
to<br>> | > > resolve the water issue (or much of any other issue)
but they follow the<br>> | > > same tactic used since the creation of
the MCA; fear, intimidation,<br>> | > > heckling and smearing are
their tools. If you support an organization like<br>> | > > GMA, you
are publicly chided for supporting candidates endorsed <br>> | > by
them. In<br>> | > > other words, you don't know as much as the MCA
people and therefore your<br>> | > > voices and your opinions don't
matter.<br>> | > ><br>> | > > Frankly, all the candidates
for city council seem to be honest, <br>> | > sincere and<br>> | >
> interested in doing what they perceive to be the best things for
the<br>> | > > community. But when the actions of supporters and/or
candidates sense a<br>> | > > challenge ! to their "vision for
Moscow", rather than debate the issue, they<br>> | > > turn on the
candidate and chide them for their opinions. Wayne Krauss,<br>> | > >
Walter Steed and Dan Carscallen are all honorable men. They have <br>> |
> spent most<br>> | > > of their adult lives in this community.
They have a right to be <br>> | > respected -<br>> | > > for
their views, for their willingness to step up to the challenge of city<br>>
| > > council and for their willingness to engage in honorable debate
with<br>> | > > candidates that they don't agree with.<br>> | >
><br>> | > > In a similar vein, Linda Pall, Aaron Ament, Tom Lamar
and Evin Holmes are<br>> | > > honorable folks. Most have spent a
good portion of their adult lives in<br>> | > > Moscow and they
should be respected for their willingness to serve our<br>> | > >
community.<br>> |! > ><br>> | > > To indict any of them for
their opinions and views on a topic simply<br>> | > > validates that
our citizens should not vote for the candidate the indictors<br>> | >
> are supporting but should vote for the candidate being scalloped.
Issues<br>> | > > and answers and policies such as the water question
are founded first in<br>> | > > science. Let the science do the
talking - report studies, provide links to<br>> | > > the scientific
evidence, establish the proposition of your hypothesis and<br>> | > >
then talk about strategies for solutions. It is "very difficult" <br>> |
> to resolve<br>> | > > a problem with rhetoric and finger
pointing (Joe and Bruce, you are<br>> | > > encouraged to think about
this very carefully).<br>> | > ><br>> | > > This coming
election will say a lot about our community and about the<br>> | ! >
> future we chart for ourselves. It is time for the hand-wringers to move
to<br>> | > > the sidelines. We need decisive, thoughtful and
forthright leadership to<br>> | > > guide us through the challenges
that lay ahead. Will we have a community<br>> | > > that can support
our children and the children of our children? Will we be<br>> | > >
able to welcome new residents with a bundle of opportunities that
entices<br>> | > > them to stay or will we winnow them out - because
they don't fit into our<br>> | > > lifestyle? Will we have the type
of community that encourages <br>> | > entrepreneurs<br>> | > >
to come here and risk their investment capital here or will we worry<br>> |
> > ourselves to death over whether or not this business or that
business is<br>> | > > "acceptable"? What I have learned from
listening to the forums this past<br>> | > > couple! of years is that
even if Santa Claus wanted to move his operation<br>> | > > here,
there would be at least a handful of people who would object to that<br>> |
> > move.<br>> | > ><br>> | > > For my taste, it is
time for a change in Moscow.<br>> | > ><br>> | > ><br>> |
> > At 07:02 PM 10/18/2007, you wrote:<br>> | > ><br>> |
> > Conservation can never be a bad idea but using the water issue as a
club to<br>> | > > force other ideological visions on the community
where they don't <br>> | > apply (big<br>> | > > box ordinances
for one example) is disingenuous. I don't believe that the<br>> | > >
GMA endorsed candidates are suggesting that we make a desperate attempt
to<br>> | > > suck the aquifer dry before their terms expire. To
suggest otherwise is<br>> | > > simply partisan politics at its
worst.<br>> | > ><br>&! gt; | > > g<br>> | > >
----- Original Message -----<br>> | > > From: "Tom Hansen"
<br>> | > > To: "'g. crabtree'"
; "'Joe Campbell'"<br>> | > >
; ; "'Mark Solomon'"<br>> |
> > <br>> | > > Sent: Thursday, October
18, 2007 4:29 PM<br>> | > > Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Water
Concern?<br>> | > ><br>> | > > >g -<br>> | > >
><br>> | > > > You suggested that perhaps none of the city
council candidates have a<br>> | > > firm<br>> | > > >
handle on the water situation.<br>> | > > ><br>> | > >
> If this is true, wouldn't it be better advised to err on the side
of<br>> | > > > caution?<br>> | > > ><br>> | >
> > ! Both Lamar and Ament cited PBAC as authorities on the figures
they<br>> | > > presented<br>> | > > > yesterday at the
CofC Forum. Krauss cited "something [he] read<br>> | > >
somewhere"<br>> | > > > and Steed simply wants to remove
limitations and controls.<br>> | > > ><br>> | > > >
Your thoughts?<br>> | > > ><br>> | > > > Seeya round
town, Moscow.<br>> | > > ><br>> | > > > Tom
Hansen<br>> | > > > Moscow, Idaho<br>> | > > ><br>>
| > > > "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.
The college<br>> | > > > students are not very active in local
elections (thank goodness!)."<br>> | > > ><br>> | > >
> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)<br>> | > > ><br>> | >
> > -----Original Message-----<br>> | > > ! ><br>> | >
> > From: <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a> [<br>> | > >
mailto:<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>]<br>> | > > > On Behalf Of g.
crabtree<br>> | > > > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 3:33
PM<br>> | > > > To: Joe Campbell; <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">vision2020@moscow.com</a>; Mark
Solomon<br>> | > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water
Concern?<br>> | > > ><br>> | > > > I assume the
statement that includes "...regarding<br>> | > > > the upper
aquifer which if continued to be pumped at current <br>> | > levels
could<br>> | > > be<br>> | > > ><br>> | > > >
in crisis as soon as 15-20 years from now." is couched that way to
leave<br>> | > > > room for the obvious corollary?<br>> | >
> ><br>> | > > > Could be 50-75 years, could be 115-120
years? Could be we really don't<br>> | > > know> | >
> > for sure? Could be that Krauss, Carscallen, and Steed have as firm
a<br>> | > > handle<br>> | > > > on the water situation
as any of the MCA candidates do.<br>> | > > ><br>> | > >
> g<br>> | > > ><br>> | > > ><br>> | > >
><br>> | > > ><br>> | > >
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