[Vision2020] Coulter's Dream - from CNN

[Joe Campbell]

Ted,

There is a difference between knowledge and belief. Having knowledge -- by 
my lights -- entails having evidence and it is the nature of evidence that it is 
measured by certain objective standards about what counts as evidence and 
what counts as a cogent inference. In short, it needs to cover certain 
standards that are endorsed by a wide array of people.

Faith -- by my lights -- deals with belief, not knowledge. Personally, I feel like 
I have knowledge of God's existence but no knowledge of his nature. What I 
think about his nature rests on faith -- in my particular case. This is a kind of 
traditional view about the existence and nature of God accepted by 
rationalists, like myself, for much of the history of Western Philosophy. I'm 
not claiming that the view is popular but it is not uncommon.

I believe that God is a person. Do I know this? I don't see how I know this -- 
in the way that I use the term 'know,' as entailing that I have some evidential 
support for the claim, something that most others would accept as evidence. 
Note that religious experience won't do by these standards since the others 
would at least need to have had the experience in order to be convinced. 
These are all debatable issues and others thoughtfully disagree.

Personally, I wouldn't classify my views about God as having much to do with 
doubt, as opposed to mere lack of knowledge, BUT I think it is important to 
note that VERY religious people have had doubt about God's existence -- 
Mother Teresa, Gerard Manely Hopkins, and St. Augustine to name a few.

Best, Joe

---- Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com> wrote: 

=============
On 10/16/07, g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:


>  And what exactly would be your point here, Mr. Moffett?
>

The point is exactly what I wrote below.  I could, and probably
should, expand and rewrite this statement, given it is not as clear and
precise as I would like.  But I think for the most part the point comes
across:

 If Mother Teresa (Agnes Bojaxhiu), winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, can
have moments of doubt about God, faith and religion, so can anybody who
professes belief about anything.
----
As to how this statement does or does not impact your discussion with Mr.
Campbell, I leave it to the reader.

Ted Moffett




>  ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
> *To:* Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net>
> *Cc:* g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com> ; vision2020 at moscow.com ; Donovan
> Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 15, 2007 10:34 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Coulter's Dream - from CNN
>
>
>  Gary wrote:
>
>
> > I don't recall making any comment as to whether I believed your
> > assertion of being a Christian or not and I certainly make no judgment with
> > regard to your level of commitment to whatever it is you do believe but,It
> > certainly seems to me that reasonable people could come to the conclusion
> > that you are disposed toward a certain religious ambiguity.
> >
> > g
>
>
> If Mother Teresa (Agnes Bojaxhiu), winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, can
> have moments of doubt about God, faith and religion, so can anybody who
> professes belief about anything:
>
> http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1655415,00.html
>
> "...the Teresa of the letters lived in a state of deep and abiding
> spiritual pain. In more than 40 communications, many of which have never
> before been published, she bemoans the "dryness," "darkness," "loneliness"
> and "torture" she is undergoing. She compares the experience to hell and at
> one point says it has driven her to doubt the existence of heaven and even
> of God."
>
> "The church anticipates spiritually fallow periods. Indeed, the Spanish
> mystic St. John of the Cross in the 16th century coined the term the "dark
> night" of the soul to describe a characteristic stage in the growth of some
> spiritual masters. Teresa's may be the most extensive such case on record.
> (The "dark night" of the 18th century mystic St. Paul of the Cross lasted 45
> years; he ultimately recovered.) Yet Kolodiejchuk sees it in St. John's
> context, as darkness within faith. Teresa found ways, starting in the early
> 1960s, to live with it and abandoned neither her belief nor her work.
> Kolodiejchuk produced the book as proof of the faith-filled perseverance
> that he sees as her most spiritually heroic act."
> ------------
> Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
>
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