[Vision2020] Coulter's Dream - from CNN

Tue Oct 16 03:51:45 PDT 2007

keely et. al.

I recall learning this message about the new moral order that Christ
brought, when a child in catechism classes.  I found it comforting that
Christ brought a kinder gentler approach to "punishment."  Especially as a
child, as most children, hoping to avoid the horrors that all too obviously
can befall helpless children.  Yet millions (no hyperbole) of fundamentalist
Christians in the USA follow the literal moral commands of the Old Testament
to some extent, in prejudice against gays and women, for example.  Or in
corporal punishment of children:

  [image: bullet] *Prov 23:13*: "*Withhold not correction from the child:
for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.*" [image: bullet] *Prov
23:14*: "*Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from
hell (Shoel)*." [image: bullet]

*Prov 29:15*: "*The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself
bringeth his mother to shame.*

While I prefer the moral approach of the New Testament to the Old, there
remains the thorny problem of God changing "his" ethical rules.  In one age
homosexuals and adulterers are to be stoned, after Jesus a new kinder moral
approach.  Can God change moral commands?  There is the implication of
"evolution" of God derived ethical principles, an impossibility if the Old
Testament law is God given, literal and perfect, to begin with.  Or is the
Old Testament not to be taken literally?  Then why take the New Testament
literally?  I don't expect an answer to these questions.  I am merely
pointing out what some Christians will say.

Ted Moffett

On 10/14/07, keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
>
> And my eye does pity, actually, anyone who calls himself a Christian and
> would take joy in adhering to the standards of the Old Testament that Jesus
> utterly overthrew.  Jesus' treatment of the woman caught in adultery is
> perhaps the clearest example of divine mercy, the overturning of the
> religious/sociological/legal order, and the revolutionary inter- and
> intrapersonal engagement the Gospel requires.
>
> keely
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> From: thansen at moscow.com
> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; msolomon at moscow.com;
> sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; kjajmix1 at msn.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Coulter's Dream - from CNN
> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 15:09:06 -0700
>
>  "The civil magistrate is the minister of God to execute wrath on the
> wrongdoer (Rom. 13:4).  God has not left his civil minister without guidance
> on how to exercise his office.  The Scriptures set forth clear standards of
> judgment for many offenses.  Capital crimes, for example, include
> premeditated killing (murder), kidnapping, sorcery, bestiality, adultery,
> homosexuality, and cursing one's parents (Ex. 21:14; 21:16; 22:18; 22:19;
> Lev. 20:10; 20:13; Ex. 21:17)."
>
>
>
> From "Your Eye Shall Not Pity" by Gregory Dickison where he supports such
> punishments at:
>
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yo77oz
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "Wording plays a big part in understand[ing] the nature and meaning a
> verse written two thousand years ago in a different language, and some
> Bibles just have it plain wrong."
>
> - Donovan Arnold (August 23, 2005)
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:
> vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Donovan Arnold
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 14, 2007 2:54 PM
> *To:* Mark Solomon; Sunil Ramalingam; keely emerinemix
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Coulter's Dream - from CNN
>
>
>
> Ah yes, I see your point, Mark. Why just yesterday I saw the local gays
> beheaded and my neighbors wife burned alive for her adulterous ways at
> Friendship Square. Our governments truly are comparative in offense and
> oppression.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Donovan
>
>
>
>
>
> *Mark Solomon <msolomon at moscow.com>* wrote:
>
>  Rather than do the point-by-point which has been discussed extensively on
> this list, try substituting the "current leadership of this country,
> political and corporate" for "leaders of Middle Eastern nations".
>
>
>
> m.
>
>
>
>
>
> At 1:44 PM -0700 10/14/07, Donovan Arnold wrote:
>
> I wish you would.
>
> *Mark Solomon <msolomon at moscow.com>* wrote:
>
> "Most leaders of Middle Eastern nations hoard their nations wealth, living
> in lavish palaces while their constituents live in dire poverty lacking even
> the basics of proper medical care. They also deny democracy and a voice to
> the people, and basic freedom of speech."
>
>
>
>  Donovan, do I really have to point out the obvious?
>
>
>
>  Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>  At 11:34 AM -0700 10/14/07, Donovan Arnold wrote:
>
> I think you would find most Americans are in favor removing the brutal
> repressive dictatorships that rule over many Muslims nations. Many of them
> are very wicked people with no morals or concern for the individual
> well-being of their constituents. Woman are given no rights, non-believers
> of their faith are killed, as well as homosexuals, or any woman that commits
> adultery or disobeys her husband, even if she is the victim of rape.
>
>
>
>
>  Most leaders of Middle Eastern nations hoard their nations wealth, living
> in lavish palaces while their constituents live in dire poverty lacking even
> the basics of proper medical care. They also deny democracy and a voice to
> the people, and basic freedom of speech.
>
>
>
>
>  I personally, don't see how others can agree with the justification of
> supporting these governments as Sunil does.
>
>
>
>
>  As to converting people to Christianity, I think that is a separate goal
> that needs to be done by private citizens exercising their first amendment
> rights. I don't think you would find most Christians believe you can
> physically force people into accepting Christ as your savior. It think it is
> something that most be done one on one with Christ.
>
>
>
>
>  I believe that all peoples have the right to a government that is working
> on behalf of all their constituents and allows people the freedom to explore
> and find another faith. In many of these brutal nations which Sunil defends
> the people do not enjoy these rights.
>
>
>
>
>  Best,
>
>
>
>
>  Donovan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>* wrote:
>
> The criticisms of Coulter are on target, particularly after you look at
> other things she has said or written. Here's her gem about Muslims:
>
> 'We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to
> Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only
> Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed
> civilians. That's war. And this is war.'
>
> As Carl has said, saying outrageous things is her shtick. But to look at
> the quote that got this discussion going and finding harmless explanations
> is like digging through her excrement and looking for diamonds. Either way
> you're covered with her crap.
>
> Sunil
>
>
> > > > Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 06:46:38 -0700
> > > > From: joekc at adelphia.net
> > > > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > > Subject: [Vision2020] Coulter's Dream - from CNN
> > > >
> > > > Conservative commentator and best-selling author Ann
> > > Coulter may find herself in the midst of a controversy for
> > > comments Monday suggesting America would be better if
> > > everyone was Christian.
> > > >
> > > > Asked by CNBC host Donny Deutsch what the U.S. looks like
> > > in her dreams, Coulter said it would look like the
> > > Republican National Convention in 2004
> > > >
> > > > "People were happy," she said, according to a transcript
> > > provided to CNN by CNBC. "They're Christian. They're
> > > tolerant. They defend America."
> > > >
> > > > When Deutsch responded, "It would be better if we were
> > > all Christian?" Coulter said "Yeah."
> > > >
> > > > Deutsch, himself Jewish, continued to press Coulter on
> > > her remarks, asking, "We should just throw Judaism away
>
> > > and we should all be Christians then?"
> > > >
> > > > "Yeah," Coulter responded, adding "Well, it's a lot
> > > easier. It's kind of a fast track."
> > > >
> > > > "You can't possibly believe that," Deutsch responded.
> > > "You can't possibly. You're too educated."
> > > >
> > > > "Do you know what Christianity is?" Coulter replied.
> > > "See, we believe your religion, but you have to obey. We
>
>  > > have the fast track program."
> > > >
> > > > Later in the interview Deutsch asked Coulter if she
> > > doesn't want any Jews in the world, Coulter responded,
> > > "No, we think — we just want Jews to be perfected, as they
> > > say."
> > > >
> > > > "Wow, you didn't really say that, did you," Deutsch said.
> > > >
> > > > =======================================================
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> > > > mailto: Vision2020 at moscow.com
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> > >
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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